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unrealistic speed of Camel


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#1 Mustardguts

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  • Posts: 11

Posted 24 December 2011 - 21:21

when are the devs going to fix the flight model of the camel? ROF is a fun game and love the graphics, but online multiplayer, a lot of the camel pilots have unreal flight models, either some of them have hacks or this is normal FM.

instance, I'm 700 meters, slightly diving down on a Camel frontal assault who just took off 15 seconds ago.
I dive, I shoot, I miss mostly, and I softly pull back the stick to keep speed with a slight climb at 300 meters level off to pick up more speed, all a sudden I look back and that Camel in on my back closing. He took off, did a 180, climbed like a Me163 Comet, accelerated like a 163 comet. and bullets are flying at me.

Does the Camel have a rocket button on it, if so where is it on the D7F?


Another instance, I meet a Camel at 2000 meters, I'm going 200+ KPH head on pass each other, both of us miss, I know I can not turn with him so I keep going till I can get distance from him enough to climb turn and get another headon pass.. at this Altitude, the Fokker DVIIF I'm in should have superior climb and speed to the camel, my alt throttle adjusted about 1/2 to 3/4.

I look back I see him climb, roll turn, face me, and in seconds he is like on me like 45km.. I can not shake him, my D7F at this altitude should pull from him and outclimb him (historically) his 45km distance is like 42, I'm smootly just barely climbing keeping my speed, and so is he. even the slightest climb and the camel is catching me.. like a Mig15 bis on steroids.. In a slight dive and can pull him, but at even or a climb and he gains. 2000m

That is with zero rudder, 30% fuel, 2000m, 3/4 alt throttle, full power and a long time picking up speed.. the camel in this game should be called the Mig17 cause it climbs like a homesick angel. and accelerates like a X15 rocket, the camel in this great sim has got to have like 700 hp.

I've taken on Sea5's and Spad 13's, they too can gain on me at low to med alt on level flight, but they historically would…. according to ACTUAL polit logs of WW1 even the Albatross would outrun a camel at ANY alt. but in this game even a 230 hp BMW engined Fokker D7F is slower except when you get near outer space (really high alt 5000m)

Just curious if this FIX is in the works.
Not whining, just looking for historical accuracy, just as if someone brings out a sim and has a Me262A1 "out TURNING" a A6M5 Zero at low alt, ALL the time. and asks for a fix.

Great sim hope to see a fix soon
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#2 hq_Jorri

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 22:15

Hiya Mustard,

The performance of the Camel has been discussed quite a lot on these forums. And with several flightmodel reviews already having been completed (SE5a, Nieuport 17, Nieuport 11, Fokker D.VII) I'm sure it's just a matter of time before its the Camels' turn…..at least I certainly hope so!
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#3 Disposable_hero

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 22:42

whew…I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the camel was a bit of an uber-plane….I had dam near the same exact thing happen to me in my DVIIF at altitude(where the DVIIF should reign supreme)! All the altitude advantage I had was moot as that stupid little camel could climb right up turn 180, and then outrun me….truly pathetic.. :(
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#4 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 22:55

You may enjoy this post from Gavagai:

Re: How to do the Albatros series justice
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#5 Mustardguts

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 00:11

I just got done with more testing online, this one guy named Petrol something, his camel was like q rocket ,shot up from 200 meters to 1000 in like 20 seconds, on the tale of my DVIIF.. I could not shake him, even in a dive my 230 hp engine ws no match for his 180hp. up high, up low, climbing or diving his camel caught me and shot me down.. well I made it back to base for help, and landed with oil all over my face.. lol

I'm not here to bash the game, because I think the graphics are second to none, the flight characteristics are superb, WW1 along with WW2 and Korean war aircraft and my favorites.

The uber flight model of the Camel makes online almost horrible.

I hope the Devs fix this because seems the online comunity is dying quick, Everyone who loves these aircraft has studied how they fly, there is one plane that does good in turns and another in speed, and other do better at altitude, thus it is like a chess match.
in a D7F one should not be able to turn with a camel, but a camel w 160-170-180 hp engine plane should not accelerate like a rocket and chase down a 200+ hp plane of similar weight and aerodynamics.

Yes I've seen the discusion of "How to do the Albatros series justice"

On paper yes the camel would be faster 117mph for camel vs the Albatrs Va at 112 mph.. yet in the REAL WOLD, you all know accounts of REAL pilots who flew both planes say in the pilot logs of how the Camel was slower than not just the Albatros, but about anything.
REAL WOLD pilot logs should be considered before hyped up British moral boosting statistics of airfraft.

You know how the Americans tank crews in training was told by the government that the Sherman M4 was the best tank in the world in WW2. You know a 105 mph plane the Brits make that turns good, they might give it another 15 mph on paper to boost moral.

In my opinion REAL world FACTS (pilot logs) beats out stats on paper anyday, in most cases they was the same, but not always.

Even if the camel was a 117mph plane, it's mid to high altitude was poor. it should never be even close to a Fokker D7F in speed or climb at 1000-7000m.

WE are not asking for balance, as that is not historical, we are asking for something close to historical flight models. EVERYONE knows the camel was slow and turned good, and in this game it turned like a helicopter and speeds like a Me262, up high down low, it's unbeatable in the hands of a good pilot, unless you have good gun aim skills and get off a lucky shot, or are vs a novice (who can still get you).

if in real life, if the Camel was this much better than the Fokker D7, why did the allies demand the German turn over all D7's after that war??? if the allies had something that much superior, like in ROF, then they'd never bothered to worry about the D7.

Don't get me wrong here
Sure if you outnumber th camel, have huge alt advantage and use energy well with tactics, and he is extreme novice and you are expert gunner, he can be killed. but even up the alt. skill and number and you better have a pocket full of rabbits feet.

I hope the devs read this, this is not a bash, it's a plea to fix it.. I think this is the reason people have stopped getting online to play, the reason 25 out of 30 of the servers have only one person in them.
Someone either has an EXTREME favoritism of this plane or there was a huge mistake . by the super performance of this plane.
We ask only for historical accuracy! I'd rather have the FM fixed than get a Colt .45 ACP 1911 pistol and a scarf, and still have a Mig17 in the game to face off against.

Devs please, we only ask for a fix in FM.
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#6 Mustardguts

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 00:20

Hiya Mustard,

The performance of the Camel has been discussed quite a lot on these forums. And with several flightmodel reviews already having been completed (SE5a, Nieuport 17, Nieuport 11, Fokker D.VII) I'm sure it's just a matter of time before its the Camels' turn…..at least I certainly hope so!

Thanks Jorri, it gives some of us some reassurance the Mig17, ooops I mean Camel will be fixed.
It really has ruined the multiplayer aspect of the sim bigtime. I want to battle WW1 aircraft, not rockets. Thanks for your kind reply!!!
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#7 gavagai

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 00:24

The force is strong in this one…
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#8 Chill31

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 00:52

Unrealistic…While I agree that the Camel speed is modeled off of an optomistic version, I'd say you are using this terma little loosely.

Getting shot down by a Camel in a D7F at 2000m…You should have full altitude throttle at 2000m and then it is virtually impossible to be shot down by a Camel. I even turn fight with them under those conditions…
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#9 Mustardguts

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 02:34

Unrealistic…While I agree that the Camel speed is modeled off of an optomistic version, I'd say you are using this terma little loosely.

Getting shot down by a Camel in a D7F at 2000m…You should have full altitude throttle at 2000m and then it is virtually impossible to be shot down by a Camel. I even turn fight with them under those conditions…

I guess you have never played multilayer, the AI does not make use of the performance of Sopwith Camel in single player. Multiplayer: The Camel will tear you into shredded wheat EVEN at well above 1000m. I've been chased down by them. Alt throttle at 3/4 and full is about 3kph at best, the Camel will chase you down like a rocket after a butterfly.

2000m, none of them will go up that high Doesn't matter, as most Camel pilots linger at 1000m or below. You can come from 1000m dive on them at 200m all you like, they will shoot right up to your altitude like a Me-168 on steroids. if your at 2000 and dive to 1000.. your DEAD MEAT!
You can use all the energy management all you want, the Camel will catch you.

I've flown past them at 1000m many times to have them shoot up from take off to 1000m and run me down in my 200+ kph FD7 and there is no way to get away. Only run gut sniped, or turn and fight!

I'm not the best pilot, I admit I'm new to this sim. I'm not making excuses. I've came across a N28 pilot the other Day in my D7F at 600 meters, maneuvering and shooting at each other, we finally after 5 minutes crashed into one another, him being in a inferior plane to the D7f.. he is much better than me. I give credit where it is due. and told him so. no making excuses here.


I don't mean this in a bad tearm, but go out and try it/
I Challenge you to play multiplayer, skip the noobs, try your luck on the mediocore pilots, can not remember all their names, one Camel pilots name is Petrol** go 1vs1.. go for it and find out.
it takes a really bad pilot to lose in a Camel in this game.

once a pilot learns to fly this bird, it is almost invincible!!! superior turn, superior speed, superior acceleration and a vast superior climb to anything in the game.
Past 2000 meters I don't know, no one I've seen fights at that alt.

Good luck, and Merry X-mas
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#10 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 04:35

There's a very good chance you just suck. If you think booming and zooming a Camel in a D.VIIF is hard, try fighting a Dr.I in an SE5a or Dolphin. It's significantly harder, but still possible. Have you actually flown the Camel? Any competent pilot in a D.VIIF can decimate a Camel above 2000m.

Merry Christmas!
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http://quetoo.org


#11 Nixou

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 04:57

Let's trust developpers. Until now they have done awesome work with flight models correction, just like Jorri said, and sooner or later it will be Camel's turn to be corrected :)
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#12 gavagai

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 05:02

Any competent pilot in a D.VIIF can decimate a Camel above 2000m.

This is true, but I wouldn't say I throw all caution to the wind. It's still about vertical maneuvers and enticing the Camel pilot not to dive lower.

Pity that mustardgas exaggerates his case, because his true statements are lost in the avalanche of frustration that we have all felt at one time or another. I wouldn't say it's the Camel that has ruined multiplayer, but its combination with the Dr1, as both are faster than aircraft that should leave them in the dust. Yes, mustardgas, we've been asking for some action here for more than two years. Join the club.
:P

Merry Christmas!
:S!:
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#13 =Fifi=

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 05:04

Agreed Niky.

Time will come for those who knows to wait.
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#14 NewGuy_

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 05:19

The Camel is way too slow…
Just kidding! :lol: =) :S!: MJ
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Something something SPAD. Something something then dive away. 


#15 Mustardguts

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 05:42

Any competent pilot in a D.VIIF can decimate a Camel above 2000m.

This is true, but I wouldn't say I throw all caution to the wind. It's still about vertical maneuvers and enticing the Camel pilot not to dive lower.

Pity that mustardgas exaggerates his case, because his true statements are lost in the avalanche of frustration that we have all felt at one time or another. I wouldn't say it's the Camel that has ruined multiplayer, but its combination with the Dr1, as both are faster than aircraft that should leave them in the dust. Yes, mustardgas, we've been asking for some action here for more than two years. Join the club.
:P

Merry Christmas!
:S!:


Well the case is not exaggerated totally, I a dead serious about the Camels ability to climb, I've zoomed Camels on many occasions from 500m to low deck from a Camel taking off, they turn a 180 climb up to catch me in a few minutes time at 300-400 meters.
The Camels acceleration and climb are way out of whack, the speed from low to say 1000m they can keep up for catch me while I use alt throttle even.

TRUE I've flown the DR1 and it does seem a little fast for History. DR1's are not as over models are the Camel though.

It is good to hear the devs most likely will fix it.. two years though seems a long wait.
I hope they listen to their paying customers before we lose interest.
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#16 Mustardguts

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 05:45

There's a very good chance you just suck. I

!


Hahaha yeah I know I suck at this game for sure. no problem exposing that fast. LOL

Have a Merry Christmas all
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#17 Disposable_hero

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 07:16

There's a very good chance you just suck. If you think booming and zooming a Camel in a D.VIIF is hard, try fighting a Dr.I in an SE5a or Dolphin. It's significantly harder, but still possible. Have you actually flown the Camel? Any competent pilot in a D.VIIF can decimate a Camel above 2000m.

Merry Christmas!

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#18 ZaltysZ

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 09:54

1) Camel is slower than D.VIIF in all altitudes. At ground level the difference is only 5-8 km/h (TAS). At 2000m, it is 25 km/h (TAS). Such speed difference can assure you that Camel won't overtake D.VIIF, and D.VIIF can overtake Camel, however it is not worth much if there is Camel on the tail, because difference is too small for quickly building a separation - D.VIIF still needs altitude for dive and escape.

2) Situation with climb is very similar. D.VIIF climbs better, but difference at low altitudes isn't significant. This is with full fuel tanks. Situation can change with other fuel loads, because Camel needs less % of its fuel load for the same flight time as D.VIIF does. This can boost climb and acceleration of Camel in small dogfight maps (i.e. 10% fuel load is a norm in fast Food server).

3) D.VIIF has some particularities. It has strong adverse yaw, and if you don't counter it with rudder, you will loose lots of E. Also, allowed altitude throttle position is dependent not only on altitude, but on RPM too. If RPM are high (like in dive), you can open altitude throttle wider, than with low RPM (like in climb). This is very important while doing B&Z, and you need to move altitude throttle in sync with RPM needle.
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#19 neuro

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 12:21

My $0.002: The Camel is not all that Uber. Sure a good pilot in a Camel is hard to fight for anyone… especially on the deck and with less than 20% fuel, but on the other hand, the Dr1 and even the D8 monoplane are a match for the Camel, provided that the pilot is both a good stick and a good shot. It's all about knowing your plane, and knowing what your opponent's plane can or can't do. (hint: roll)

As for the D7… don't know. haven't flown that plane much. All I can say is that I fought a D7 in a Camel (but im not very good at flying Camels) and he was one tough opponent.
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#20 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 14:19

First of all, the Dr.I is more than "a good match" for the Camel. Any Dr.I pilot that loses a 1-on-1 fight against a Camel was simply out-flown. The Dr.I rolls about 50% faster than the Camel, especially at lower energy states. It turns tighter, has better cockpit visibiliy, prop-hangs better, and recovers from spins far more easily (instantly and effortlessly, actually) too. But the roll advantage is really all you need to ensure victory. ACM 101.

Yes, the pair of them are over-modeled to some extent. So is the Pfalz D.IIIa. And as someone who spends most of my time in other planes, I look forward to them all being revised. But to start a thread crying about the Ententes only answer to the Dr.I and D.VIIF.. come on. And btw, the Pfalz D.IIIa is probably the worst offender in terms of FM not matching any historical accounts whatsoever. Where the hell did that energy-not-required UFO come from? The thing is a pig with wings, yet it turns with a Camel and can dive vertically for 4000m? :roll:

To answer the OP, you're just not flying well, and that's understandable since you're relatively new. Watch Requiem's training videos!
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#21 gavagai

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 15:17

And as someone who spends most of my time in other planes, I look forward to them all being revised. But to start a thread crying about the Ententes only answer to the Dr.I and D.VIIF.. come on.

Historically, the Camel shouldn't be an answer to the D.VIIF; even the Mercedes-engined D.VII was superior at all altitudes.

You should spend more time flying the Albatros D.III and Fokker D.VII (Mercedes) Jay, it might change your perspective. That the latter gets paired up with the N28 in multiplayer tells you just how shitty it is.
:lol:
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#22 Mustardguts

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 18:29

First of all, the Dr.I is more than "a good match" for the Camel. Any Dr.I pilot that loses a 1-on-1 fight against a Camel was simply out-flown. The Dr.I rolls about 50% faster than the Camel, especially at lower energy states. It turns tighter, has better cockpit visibiliy, prop-hangs better, and recovers from spins far more easily (instantly and effortlessly, actually) too. But the roll advantage is really all you need to ensure victory. ACM 101.

Yes, the pair of them are over-modeled to some extent. So is the Pfalz D.IIIa. And as someone who spends most of my time in other planes, I look forward to them all being revised. But to start a thread crying about the Ententes only answer to the Dr.I and D.VIIF.. come on. And btw, the Pfalz D.IIIa is probably the worst offender in terms of FM not matching any historical accounts whatsoever. Where the hell did that energy-not-required UFO come from? The thing is a pig with wings, yet it turns with a Camel and can dive vertically for 4000m? :roll:

To answer the OP, you're just not flying well, and that's understandable since you're relatively new. Watch Requiem's training videos!


a Dr1 can not out turn a camel! been there done that. I know a suck at this game but I've been playing flight sims for 30 years, mostly Ww2 WW1 and Korean war. I'm not new to it either.
I know energy management and maneuvers, and I know when a plane is way over modeled.
The DR1 Roll rate is not that great, esp left turns where you have to use left rudder and east the stick back, even with rudder, if you have your nose over the horizon and pull to hard to the left it will spin out, rudder or not.
It is not as easy to fly as the others, and that is what makes it more fun.

a Good Camel pilot will kill a good Dr1 pilot in this sim EVERY TIME.. that great roll rate is all nice till you both get low, rolls use up energy, the exp Camel pilot will climb while you roll around and bounce you.

In real life I think the Dr1 was slower than in this game, I totally agree with you.. but it does not have the climb of the Camel.. or Acceleration. not in this game.
maybe some people have cheat fm mods or something, but I think too many people have noticed this and it a beefed FM from someone on or was on the team who was favoring the camel just a tad bit.



I'm not exaggerating the least, the camel in ROF has a rocket engine on it or something, no plane on earth in 1918 should be able to catch a FD7F at full speed head on pass from high alt, on a Camel taking off, The Camel turns a 180, shoots up 500m and rockets to behind the FD7 in a matter of minutes and is sending lead at me, no out running it. THIS REALLY happens often!

I'm talking real ROF online experience here, not historical what is meant to happen.

This is not a cry or whine, it stating the FACTS! cowering and sticking my head in the sand and ignoring that I am a paying customer VS another voice asking the devs to for "some" historical accuracy is not bashing anyone, or personally insulting anyone, it's polite feedback on bugs that they may not know of. if one Persons exposes the problem to them about it and 200 others keep silent they'll not know to fix it.

ps
BTW is the fm of the Pfalz D.IIIa really that wicked???, never see much of them.
I don't have that, now that I know it is uber I'll refuse to buy it till it get fixed, thanks!
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#23 Parazaine

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 18:42

First of all, the Dr.I is more than "a good match" for the Camel. Any Dr.I pilot that loses a 1-on-1 fight against a Camel was simply out-flown. The Dr.I rolls about 50% faster than the Camel, especially at lower energy states. It turns tighter, has better cockpit visibiliy, prop-hangs better, and recovers from spins far more easily (instantly and effortlessly, actually) too. But the roll advantage is really all you need to ensure victory. ACM 101.

Yes, the pair of them are over-modeled to some extent. So is the Pfalz D.IIIa. And as someone who spends most of my time in other planes, I look forward to them all being revised. But to start a thread crying about the Ententes only answer to the Dr.I and D.VIIF.. come on. And btw, the Pfalz D.IIIa is probably the worst offender in terms of FM not matching any historical accounts whatsoever. Where the hell did that energy-not-required UFO come from? The thing is a pig with wings, yet it turns with a Camel and can dive vertically for 4000m? :roll:

To answer the OP, you're just not flying well, and that's understandable since you're relatively new. Watch Requiem's training videos!

Lol Jay, the blind leading the blind….i agree with some of what you say, the Camel and DR1 ARE overmodeled but i think we know which is more overmodeled than the other….one has very little torque effect when it was this that killed as many pilots in training as in action and the other is a bit too fast (the camel is too fast, badly modeled fm with too little torque) while the DR1 has repeatedly been nerfed (although this is denied by the devs…i'm a DR1 pilot and i know!) wings that tear off at questionable wing loads, glass engine.

As for the DIIIa, yes it's overmodeled but perhaps not as much as you make out….you question it's strength?….it did have metallic instead of canvas wings etc way before it's time so perhaps it SHOULD be able to dive….it's glass engine will fail though, especially if an opponent sneezes at it and if you can't beat ANY central plane in a Camel then perhaps you should just shoot yourself? ;)

The OP is correct…the Camel as is (and some pilots will NOT fly anything else) does unbalance multiplayer (more than is historic) …contemporary pilot accounts rate it's performance as average (i'm assuming they refer to the more numerous variant that is represented atm) Make it as slow as it really was and as difficult to fly as it really was and it's opposition as good as they REALLY were and we would see a different result online.
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#24 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 19:44

a Dr1 can not out turn a camel! been there done that. I know a suck at this game but I've been playing flight sims for 30 years, mostly Ww2 WW1 and Korean war. I'm not new to it either.
I know energy management and maneuvers, and I know when a plane is way over modeled.
The DR1 Roll rate is not that great, esp left turns where you have to use left rudder and east the stick back, even with rudder, if you have your nose over the horizon and pull to hard to the left it will spin out, rudder or not.
It is not as easy to fly as the others, and that is what makes it more fun.

a Good Camel pilot will kill a good Dr1 pilot in this sim EVERY TIME.. that great roll rate is all nice till you both get low, rolls use up energy, the exp Camel pilot will climb while you roll around and bounce you.

In real life I think the Dr1 was slower than in this game, I totally agree with you.. but it does not have the climb of the Camel.. or Acceleration. not in this game.
maybe some people have cheat fm mods or something, but I think too many people have noticed this and it a beefed FM from someone on or was on the team who was favoring the camel just a tad bit.



I'm not exaggerating the least, the camel in ROF has a rocket engine on it or something, no plane on earth in 1918 should be able to catch a FD7F at full speed head on pass from high alt, on a Camel taking off, The Camel turns a 180, shoots up 500m and rockets to behind the FD7 in a matter of minutes and is sending lead at me, no out running it. THIS REALLY happens often!

I'm talking real ROF online experience here, not historical what is meant to happen.

This is not a cry or whine, it stating the FACTS! cowering and sticking my head in the sand and ignoring that I am a paying customer VS another voice asking the devs to for "some" historical accuracy is not bashing anyone, or personally insulting anyone, it's polite feedback on bugs that they may not know of. if one Persons exposes the problem to them about it and 200 others keep silent they'll not know to fix it.

I want some of what your smoking 8-) :lol:
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#25 gavagai

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 20:32

Lol Jay, the blind leading the blind….

Yes, now that Newguy defected to the Spad, I think Jay Dolan is on his way to being the mirror image of Winger. :D
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#26 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 20:41

As for the DIIIa […] it did have metallic instead of canvas wings etc

It was covered with canvas like the other planes (with the exception of the E.V/D.VIII), the only difference was that they mixed aluminium powder into the paint/dope, similar to the Nieuport 17, to improve weatherproofing.
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#27 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 23:03

Good grief..

Para, you sound ridiculous. Like someone who stumbled into this game 5 minutes ago, tho you've been here for as long as I have. I don't really know how you can write posts like that and take yourself seriously.. maybe you were just pulling my chain.

None of the Central planes have "glass engines." I don't fly the Dr.I any more carefully than I fly the Camel or N.17, and I haven't popped a motor in that thing in ages. And to the OP, I hope to catch you on New Wings sometime. I'll fly the Dr.I, you can fly the Camel, and we'll see what happens :)
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http://quetoo.org


#28 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 23:09

And to the OP, I hope to catch you on New Wings sometime. I'll fly the Dr.I, you can fly the Camel, and we'll see what happens :)

Why you going on New Wings? Is the Newbie server down or is it just full?

Might be time to take the armbands (water wings) off Jay (AKA =IRFC=SoggyBiscuit).
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#29 Parazaine

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  • Posts: 1902

Posted 25 December 2011 - 23:13

Good grief..

Para, you sound ridiculous. Like someone who stumbled into this game 5 minutes ago, tho you've been here for as long as I have. I don't really know how you can write posts like that and take yourself seriously.. maybe you were just pulling my chain.

None of the Central planes have "glass engines." I don't fly the Dr.I any more carefully than I fly the Camel or N.17, and I haven't popped a motor in that thing in ages. And to the OP, I hope to catch you on New Wings sometime. I'll fly the Dr.I, you can fly the Camel, and we'll see what happens :)

lol 'none of the central planes have glass engines'…really? laughing my a.. off.

@ imp…you are correct, Diiia canvas wings

@ Jay…shall we have a poll about who consistently sounds more ridiculous?…or like someone that's been flying for 5 minutes :S!:
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#30 R_Suppards

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  • Posts: 598

Posted 26 December 2011 - 00:37

Mustard, somehow though I could be wrong, I have the impression that you are unhappy with the Camel's performance. Well you are not alone. I am also. The Camel had a reputation of being unbeatably quick in a right hand turn whilst slow in the left turn. Then I come up against the Pfalz D IIIa. Now I have hundreds of hours logged flying a biplane in RL so I count myself competent. In a turn against the Pfalz I am on the edge of stall, sensing the preceding tremor yet still the Pfalz can match me. :o
I want the Camel changed. :evil:
My point is simple. As you say, ROF is a flight sim. The developers do the best they can and respond to input. We know there are faults and we fly to those faults. Find the plane that suits your style and enjoy it until something is changed. You may not have meant it, but to come in as you did with all guns blazing at the developers is not the best way.
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#31 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

=IRFC=AirBiscuit
  • Posts: 2455
  • LocationNaples, FL USA

Posted 26 December 2011 - 00:52

And to the OP, I hope to catch you on New Wings sometime. I'll fly the Dr.I, you can fly the Camel, and we'll see what happens :)

Why you going on New Wings? Is the Newbie server down or is it just full?

Might be time to take the armbands (water wings) off Jay (AKA =IRFC=SoggyBiscuit).

:lol: I don't think I've ever seen you online, TC.

Btw, Para, what constitutes a "glass engine" in your opinion? Having to throttle back in an extended dive? Really? If you fly carelessly, you'll blow the engine in every aircraft in the game except the new SE5a. SPAD, Nieuports, Tripe are all susceptible to over-revving in a dive if you fly like an idiot. The Dr.I and D.VIII are all of an ass hair more sensitive than those, but perhaps they are modeled as such because they used shitty knock-off engines in real life?

Lean out your mixture and keep the throttle open when diving the rotary planes in the game. Keeps the heads hot and your RPMs down. Works like a charm.
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=IRFC=Air Biscuit

http://quetoo.org


#32 neuro

neuro
  • Posts: 1523

Posted 26 December 2011 - 01:04

Ever heard of those people who set up a 'swear jar'? Every time they drop a 'bad' word they have to put a dollar in the jar. Helps control your language, and helps you 'piggy bank' a little bit. OK, that's the concept, for those who never heard of a 'swear jar'

Now, maybe we should have something similar, but with pointless FM-whine posts. Every time someone whines about this or that plane being 'an UFO', or 'unrealistically <adjective>', or other whine of similar effect, he should put $1 in the 'UFO whine fund'. What to do with all the millions $$$, remains to be decided (something like building a school or a hospital…)

Then of course, paying $1 every time would be highly ineffective due to transfer fees, so users could have each his 'ufo whine account' that is charged $1 at every ufo-whine. User would have to make the payment every time he reaches <this much> ufo-whine debt, like $10 or something.

(I guess you could also buy 'ufo-whine credit'… maybe with a discount! Pay $10 and have the right to post 12 ufo-whine posts)
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#33 gavagai

gavagai
  • Posts: 15542

Posted 26 December 2011 - 01:38

I'd like $1 every time there's a smart ass post in defense of an aircraft that is line for FM review. ;)
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#34 Eckhart

Eckhart
  • Posts: 559

Posted 26 December 2011 - 02:58

And to the OP, I hope to catch you on New Wings sometime. I'll fly the Dr.I, you can fly the Camel, and we'll see what happens :)

Why you going on New Wings? Is the Newbie server down or is it just full?

Might be time to take the armbands (water wings) off Jay (AKA =IRFC=SoggyBiscuit).


:D :D :D

Great post Tom! lololol
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#35 catchov

catchov
  • Posts: 4089
  • LocationQld, Australia

Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:17

Winger must be on hols. :( Have to keep bumping this 'til he gets back. :)
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#36 neuro

neuro
  • Posts: 1523

Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:42

I'd like $1 every time there's a smart ass post in defense of an aircraft that is line for FM review. ;)
You mean me?
I didn't say that the Camel is perfectly realistic (what would I know?), I just said that it's not all that 'uber'.
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#37 Mustardguts

Mustardguts
  • Posts: 11

Posted 26 December 2011 - 17:05

Mustard, somehow though I could be wrong, I have the impression that you are unhappy with the Camel's performance.

You may not have meant it, but to come in as you did with all guns blazing at the developers is not the best way.

The way I do things is the way I do them. owell.
Also I never came in guns blazing at anyone. no personal attacks have been made to anyone. I never said the developers are dumb or anything, I did ay that they made a mistake in the flight models. no software is perfect, all software has bugs and things that are wrong, a team of 20-30 people to put out a program in a short time is going to make mistakes, it is OUR job to give feedback to them. They have too little people and much to do to find all the historically incorrect data and bugs. But the 1000's of people who fly it do.
Continuous feedback and reminders is productive.

thanks
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#38 MattM

MattM
  • Posts: 2595

Posted 26 December 2011 - 17:35

In real life I think the Dr1 was slower than in this game, I totally agree with you.. but it does not have the climb of the Camel.. or Acceleration. not in this game.
The accerelation of the DR.I is almost the same as the Camel and the DR.I outclimbs the Camel.

Maybe you're not familiar with any plane yet. That would explain why you fly the D.VIIF at 2000 meters and don't use full altitude throttle. If you would've done that, you would've been 30 km/h faster than the Camel in level flight, obviously still much faster if the Camel is just flying a turn and needs to accelerate.

The Camel can practically never catch a D.VIIF at that altitude, which is not even that high anyway, especially not when you're sitting in a D.VIIF.

In a turn against the Pfalz I am on the edge of stall, sensing the preceding tremor yet still the Pfalz can match me. :o
The Camel outturns every plane, with the exception of the DR.I (in many situations atleast). That should be good enough.

If a D.IIIa outturns you, you should practice flying the Camel a bit more.

I did read many FM wishes in these forums, but now it's getting a bit ridiculous, with people asking for a better turning Camel.

Based on the recent FM revisions (SE5a, N17, N11), the devs seem to know how to fix the planes in question. So maybe it's better to wait and see.
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#39 Mustardguts

Mustardguts
  • Posts: 11

Posted 26 December 2011 - 17:42

Ever heard of those people who set up a 'swear jar'? Every time they drop a 'bad' word they have to put a dollar in the jar. Helps control your language, and helps you 'piggy bank' a little bit. OK, that's the concept, for those who never heard of a 'swear jar'

Now, maybe we should have something similar, but with pointless FM-whine posts. Every time someone whines about this or that plane being 'an UFO', or 'unrealistically <adjective>', or other whine of similar effect, he should put $1 in the 'UFO whine fund'. What to do with all the millions $$$, remains to be decided (something like building a school or a hospital…)

Then of course, paying $1 every time would be highly ineffective due to transfer fees, so users could have each his 'ufo whine account' that is charged $1 at every ufo-whine. User would have to make the payment every time he reaches <this much> ufo-whine debt, like $10 or something.

(I guess you could also buy 'ufo-whine credit'… maybe with a discount! Pay $10 and have the right to post 12 ufo-whine posts)


Too many people notice the Camel uber performance for your name calling (we are whiners you say) insults to get them quiet. Maybe you like the Camel, and just maybe ya don't want to have the beans spilled on the uber flight model, so when you shoot someone down online it is of course your "MASTER skills" that overwhelmed them, not the uber camel flight model you have over that others don't have!


People who play this sim usually have read up on flight data and know hiow they are supposed to fly in general. people have left this sim in droves who did not say anything. on a good night you may have 2-3 servers open with 10-30 people. most of them just 1 person, People who fly sim know the Spad13 and SEA5 are 138 mph aircraft and they expect it, people know the Fokker DVIIF will out climb anything in the war, they know the DR1 and Camel are radial engine and turn better than anything esp right, they know they are slow and don't have much speed.
Overall ROF is awesome, but a few little bugs can ruin it, a few little fix and people will start coming in droves to play. I like the sim and i'd like to see more people come and stay, would made the DEVS much more money in return in the long run.


Like I have said before, the devs have too little people to test EVERY aircraft in every way. To say nothing, in fear of losing brownie points with the devs and just stick your head in the sand. Is not productive. When something isn't working right, you can either Say "hey" or be scared and keep mouth shut.


I'm my country up to the 1770's we was controlled by the British, but someone said "ENOUGH" and fought back, I guess not being a butt kisser loyalist made them a "whinier" because they was not scared to fight back or say what they felt. (esp if they paid for something)
Yeah so the scared call the outgoing people whiners?
Good luck with that!

Let us cool are tongues and be adults here, the name calling for something you don't agree on is childish!
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#40 BSS_DrGlow

BSS_DrGlow
  • Posts: 561

Posted 26 December 2011 - 18:24

Your tongue must be burnt to a crisp by now,I think your right cool it
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