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The Big Wishlist


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#41 Miggins

Miggins
  • Posts: 3115

Posted 26 August 2009 - 19:41

ADDING TO THE LIST:

Singleplayer:

AI aircrafts taking off from their airfields - NOT spawning in the air
All planes are free for single player MP locked planes to purchase (this gives us a chance to try before we by)
Pilot-driven career
Historically accurate campaign like flanders field
Historically accurate Weather
AI uses proper squadron paint jobs
Ability to choose the ammo type
Better AI
Different AI skill levels from rookie to ace
Special skins for AI aces where appropriate
AI gunnery skills toned down/made more "human"
Moving Front Line instead of the static one we have now
First mission should be in a penguin *some of you may know what I'm talking about*
Keep releasing new planes the way it is now (one at a time, without a haste but with great details).
Ability to control tank selection and magnetos.

Multiplayer:
Hosting person should have maximum control over server settings and decide about the way the game is played (in. eg. whether kill info is displayed or not, or if the player can/cannot join mission in progress etc.).
Respawning option
Jump in/jump out play option
Preview of the selected skin before mission starts.
MMO type servers
Lobby like HyperlobbyBuddy system to add contacts see who is online
Ability to change sides without leaving server - if desired - to better balance a given mission
Team Autobalance maybe?
Ability for Server HOST to kick/ban a player
Ping display
Kill info
Free for all deathmatch with respawns from airfields
Pilon Racing with those big green hoops that were in training missions
no need to wait for all players to "report ready" and "finish mission" (so anyone could leave his computer for a moment without causing other players to wait for him)
The possibility of having a human gunner in the two seaters


General:
Better UI (more in-flight options, menu for hand motions, saving convergence/loadout/paint)
Custom skins (paint jobs)
More detailed terrain (hills, valleys, etc.)
More detailed joystick options (setting of curves and deadzones, better profile mangement)(IN GAME CONFIG)
Seasons
Quick mission generator
Decrease load times (in whatever ways possible)
SLI and Crossfire support or at least a detailed page describing how we can get the best out of the game.
Balloon observers parachuting when attacked.
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#42 shrink

shrink
  • Posts: 13

Posted 26 August 2009 - 20:17

Ability to change icon types. I like to use icons but I can't stand the little arrows showing me where everything is.
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#43 TJTAS

TJTAS
  • Posts: 142

Posted 26 August 2009 - 22:31

Stethnorun,

I think the Cooperative Multiplay should read Cooperative multiplayer career type generator.
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#44 hq_Jorri

hq_Jorri
  • Posts: 14143

Posted 26 August 2009 - 22:36

BTW can we go back to the bright and sunshiny type of UI screen instead of the dark showroom floor screen that comes up when you launch the game? I think I like the bright hanger view much better.

I don't know the previous screen you are talking about, but I love the museum theme, especially with the racing cars and the I-16 in the next room and such.
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#45 athlondude

athlondude
  • Posts: 515

Posted 26 August 2009 - 22:40

BTW can we go back to the bright and sunshiny type of UI screen instead of the dark showroom floor screen that comes up when you launch the game? I think I like the bright hanger view much better.

I don't know the previous screen you are talking about, but I love the museum theme, especially with the racing cars and the I-16 in the next room and such.

It looked like this, and basically the camera just rotated around the aircraft like the current one does.

Attached Files

  • Attached File  rof9.jpg   167.29KB   786 downloads

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#46 hq_Jorri

hq_Jorri
  • Posts: 14143

Posted 26 August 2009 - 22:42

Now there's a fast reply:D

That looks pretty nice, but I still really like the museum theme.
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#47 athlondude

athlondude
  • Posts: 515

Posted 26 August 2009 - 22:51

Now there's a fast reply:D

That looks pretty nice, but I still really like the museum theme.

Maybe they could make it to where you get to choose your own in game desktop. That would make everyone happy, have the hangar, museum, maybe even a shot of it in the air or something to that effect.
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#48 stethnorun

stethnorun
  • Posts: 571

Posted 27 August 2009 - 00:08

Now there's a fast reply:D

That looks pretty nice, but I still really like the museum theme.

Maybe they could make it to where you get to choose your own in game desktop. That would make everyone happy, have the hangar, museum, maybe even a shot of it in the air or something to that effect.

I said this before, but the museum theme would be best as a "main menu". Then if you choose career, it would use the old hangar background (thus adding to the role play immersion).
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#49 stethnorun

stethnorun
  • Posts: 571

Posted 27 August 2009 - 00:09

Stethnorun,

I think the Cooperative Multiplay should read Cooperative multiplayer career type generator.

Actually Coop Multi refers to career AND to co-op single missions like Russian Roulette.
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#50 TJTAS

TJTAS
  • Posts: 142

Posted 27 August 2009 - 00:19

OK just thought it was a bit unspecific.
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#51 Chaos

Chaos
  • Posts: 624

Posted 27 August 2009 - 01:14

Tracker IR support for external views
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#52 stethnorun

stethnorun
  • Posts: 571

Posted 27 August 2009 - 02:00

Ok I'm going to leave this thread going until Saturday night or thereabouts. After that, I won't be updating it (though you still will be able to post your thoughts, I'll still read them). I'm going to organize the list on Sunday and then next week we can start prioritizing it all.
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#53 Pierre2

Pierre2
  • Posts: 541
  • LocationAdelaide

Posted 27 August 2009 - 04:24

Fix windsock so it actually works, I believe this was promised for a near future update.
Shorten loading times.
Some decent off line single missions that stay high enough and far enough away from the front so there is not as much impact on Frame Rates.
A dynamic campaign generator for off line play.
A quick mission builder.
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#54 WWBrian

WWBrian
  • Posts: 2418

Posted 27 August 2009 - 04:29

Tracker IR support for external views

CHaos,

If you're feeling exceptionally techie…you can try my suggestion here – http://riseofflight....?p=22811#p22811">viewtopic.php?p=22811#p22811

…not even sure it's do-able, but then again, I said the same thing just before one guy sucessfully set up a TiR axis as his rudder input using a similar method.

*shrug*
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#55 Chaos

Chaos
  • Posts: 624

Posted 27 August 2009 - 06:18

Tracker IR support for external views

CHaos,

If you're feeling exceptionally techie…you can try my suggestion here – http://riseofflight....?p=22811#p22811">viewtopic.php?p=22811#p22811

…not even sure it's do-able, but then again, I said the same thing just before one guy sucessfully set up a TiR axis as his rudder input using a similar method.

*shrug*

As the rudder? Hrm… Interesting lol

But yeah, I will give that a go for external pov. Cheers for that Brian S!
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#56 vowthyn

vowthyn
  • Posts: 76

Posted 27 August 2009 - 06:30

Few more on second thought.

ADDING TO THE LIST:

Singleplayer:

AI aircrafts taking off from their airfields - NOT spawning in the air
All planes are free for single player MP locked planes to purchase (this gives us a chance to try before we by)
Pilot-driven career
Fix the "warmup engine" issue with AI crashing with this helper beeing disabled.
Historically accurate campaign like flanders field
Historically accurate Weather
AI uses proper squadron paint jobs
Ability to choose the ammo type
Better AI
Different AI skill levels from rookie to ace
Special skins for AI aces where appropriate
AI gunnery skills toned down/made more "human"
Moving Front Line instead of the static one we have now
First mission should be in a penguin *some of you may know what I'm talking about*
Keep releasing new planes the way it is now (one at a time, without a haste but with great details).
Ability to control tank selection and magnetos.

Multiplayer:
Ability to lock the outside views for each player if they had been locked on server. (to avoid cheating).
Hosting person should have maximum control over server settings and decide about the way the game is played (in. eg. whether kill info is displayed or not, or if the player can/cannot join mission in progress etc.).
Respawning option
Jump in/jump out play option
Preview of the selected skin before mission starts.
MMO type servers
Lobby like HyperlobbyBuddy system to add contacts see who is online
Ability to change sides without leaving server - if desired - to better balance a given mission
Team Autobalance maybe?
Keyboard shortcuts to screens like "ban player" and similar, so there was no need for using mouse during online flights.
Ability for Server HOST to kick/ban a player
Ping display
Kill info
Free for all deathmatch with respawns from airfields
Pilon Racing with those big green hoops that were in training missions
no need to wait for all players to "report ready" and "finish mission" (so anyone could leave his computer for a moment without causing other players to wait for him). "Force start/finish mission" option available for host would be some solution here.
The possibility of having a human gunner in the two seaters



General:
Better UI (more in-flight options, menu for hand motions, saving convergence/loadout/paint)
Fonts with more conrast (lobby, ban player etc.)
Custom skins (paint jobs)
More detailed terrain (hills, valleys, etc.)
Cockpit demolition (bullet holes, gauges crashed etc.)
More detailed joystick options (setting of curves and deadzones, better profile mangement)(IN GAME CONFIG)
Seasons
Track recording
Quick mission generator
Decrease load times (in whatever ways possible)
SLI and Crossfire support or at least a detailed page describing how we can get the best out of the game.
Balloon observers parachuting when attacked.
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#57 Chaos

Chaos
  • Posts: 624

Posted 27 August 2009 - 06:44

Tracker IR support for external views

CHaos,

If you're feeling exceptionally techie…you can try my suggestion here – http://riseofflight....?p=22811#p22811">viewtopic.php?p=22811#p22811

…not even sure it's do-able, but then again, I said the same thing just before one guy sucessfully set up a TiR axis as his rudder input using a similar method.

*shrug*

As the rudder? Hrm… Interesting lol

But yeah, I will give that a go for external pov. Cheers for that Brian S!


No doesnt work.. What I want is to be able to look left and right / up down with Tracker IR when I press F4
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#58 vowthyn

vowthyn
  • Posts: 76

Posted 27 August 2009 - 09:13

Oh, and one more. Please add a "Instant action" option, which sends you directly in the air with just one click (excactly the way it is beeing made in DCS - Black Shark). All mission circumstances random. Not that it is some great way of enjoying the sim itself, but it is just irreplaceable option for any kind of testing settings (graphics, controls etc.) when one have to enter&exit mission many times to do some corrections. In that situation i get irritated with each one click I have to do to enter a mission, which I don't want to actually fly, but just check the effect of changes that I made in config.
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#59 WWBrian

WWBrian
  • Posts: 2418

Posted 27 August 2009 - 09:44

Tracker IR support for external views

CHaos,

If you're feeling exceptionally techie…you can try my suggestion here – http://riseofflight....?p=22811#p22811">viewtopic.php?p=22811#p22811

…not even sure it's do-able, but then again, I said the same thing just before one guy sucessfully set up a TiR axis as his rudder input using a similar method.

*shrug*

As the rudder? Hrm… Interesting lol

But yeah, I will give that a go for external pov. Cheers for that Brian S!


No doesnt work.. What I want is to be able to look left and right / up down with Tracker IR when I press F4


I chose the wrong two action lines, T_O_A_D says he got his to work editing two different lines ( but it pans too fast)…may want to see if those lines work in F4 view.

…again, I havn't done it myself though.
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#60 Dunkers

Dunkers
  • Posts: 390

Posted 27 August 2009 - 13:20

General:

- No black screen before mission start when subtitles off
- Game remembers last selected skin, gun convergence and ammo load settings for all aircraft
- No need to reload mission when reflying the same one (see load times)
- More AI aircraft types. It doesn’t matter if they are not presently flyable.
- All instructions and briefings written by someone with English as a first language.
- AI aircraft/crewmembers not disappearing when shot down/killed.
- Ability to continue watching mission when shot down.
- Optional random engine failures.
- Optional Иwrist’ compass for those aircraft without one.
- Improved collision with solid objects damage modelling
- Section leader's wing and tail streamers available for both own aircraft and AI.
- Black Archie (already in), white Archie and flaming onions.
- Balloon Observers parachuting out when under attack.
- Pilots of burning aircraft jumping out, including the ability to do so yourself - without your pilot switching to externals either.
- Someone to swing my prop.
- Improved landscape beneath village buildings.
- Maps for all phases of the western front in WW1; seasonal and front line alterations.
- More variation in landscape of No-Mans' land.
- Occupants of vehicles running away when being strafed (a la IL-2).
- Improved and varied trenches.
- Non FPS-killer ground population objects. Troops, civilians, horses.

:cheers:
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#61 Sirocco

Sirocco
  • Posts: 1966

Posted 27 August 2009 - 13:27

No more poetry. It gets old pretty fast, especially when it's all over the centre of the screen on startup.
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#62 Chaos

Chaos
  • Posts: 624

Posted 27 August 2009 - 13:45

No more poetry. It gets old pretty fast, especially when it's all over the centre of the screen on startup.

1+


Change the names to Entente, and Central Powers what is order and opposite? Is that translated from russian to english?
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#63 Sirocco

Sirocco
  • Posts: 1966

Posted 27 August 2009 - 13:53

Here's a thought, though it might be covered by the general point about more detail on squadrons:

SINGLE PLAYER
When squadron leader decide who flies what missions and in what numbers

CAMPAIGN
3D interface

There are a number of ways you can display squadron status, but I always prefer a 3D interactive screen rather than 2D. If you remember the original MicroProse Gunship title you'll remember how immserive the briefings were with the notes on your lap.

What about having your squadrons planes lined up, with ground crew working on them. You can tell the new replacement aircraft from the old. All the aircraft have their correct paintjobs. The pilot might be standing next to each aircraft, holding his logbook. You might even put awarded medals on him. You can click the logbook or the man to get more information on him.
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#64 Pixel8

Pixel8
  • Posts: 11

Posted 27 August 2009 - 17:37

I think most people have already mentioned the better ideas or most pressing issues here and elsewhere on the board… I just wanted to expand on a few and add my voice to the general consensus, so it's probably best to skip this unless you're interested in reading specific approaches to problems.

SINGLE PLAYER

1. Limited offline mode ( Could possibly serve as the basis for a public Demo? ).

A: Theory

I believe there are two major reasons why a portion of the people are upset with having this game confined to online mode.

I. It's a very limited genre and modern representations of this quality are practically non-existent… Having no real offline alternative alienates a lot of people.

II. This is a unique skill-based game and without regular practice a person gets the sense of being left behind if they can't participate in any way.

B: Approach / Compromise

Maybe without server verification a player is confined to a limited or Demo mode… For example, Only the training campaign and a quick mission or 1 vs. 1 mode is available with the original 2 planes that came with the game. This would be a win-win because people could at least keep in practice without mandatory internet access and neoqb will still keep their revenue model of secured accounts, selling extra planes and quality control when people do have access. I think potential pirates would get bored of a limited mode quickly and move on without access to content bonuses, planes and multiplayer. Paying customers know that eventually they can get back online and enjoy their extra content without feeling completely left out.

I know this has been beaten to death and neoqb keeps saying NO, but there really could be some sort of offline mode compromise implemented to make everyone more satisfied with their purchase or entice those who have held off. If neoqb extends an olive branch on this issue it would make a lot of current and future customers happier. There will be times when people can't have internet access for a variety of reasons and even a limited play option for practice will be welcomed by every fan and paying customer of the game.

2. More involved / realistic campaign.

I'm not too much into the war sim side of things, but I would just say neoqb or any good developer should go take some notes from OFF:BHaH on how to create meaningful depth. That game is serious business when it comes to historical immersion and options. I was slightly disappointed with the aging CS3 flight model tuned for WW1 use, but everything else is so well thought out for a single player game it neutralizes the issue. It's absolutely amazing and I'm not even a huge role playing person! I respect it greatly and those who want that level of detail… It's almost too hardcore, but everything can be adjusted to personal preferences and it's very welcomed. That level of work would take at least a good year dedicated with a professional team, so I know it's a long shot due to financial reasons.

MULTIPLAYER

1. Switch teams without having to leave the server and reload.

In fact, the current system should be redesigned completely. The lobby should load quickly and planes get setup first… Once everyone is ready the game/mission data should then load for everyone at the same time. I've seen people get cut out of a mission or not want to switch sides because it takes WAY too long to reload before getting into the lobby for plane selection.

2. Join a mission in progress.

Even if someone can't immediately catch up to the main sortie, at least they can possibly provide some reinforcements or get some stick time in while waiting. Or maybe a free flight mode where they can't interfere with other players, but can still chat and go sight seeing while everyone finishes up. Another way to implement this could be staggered waves… Where the game can introduce new players once sides fill up evenly in the spectator cue.

3. Auto-balance teams.

Not only just raw numbers, but possibly take into account people's skill level too (players who are on streaks or have a high K/D ratio). No sense in letting all those wonderful mandatory online statistics gathering go to waste.

4. Friends / Buddy List.

See who's available online and what server they're on or invite them to join one… Notified on the main page when you first log-in, not just in the multiplayer section. Might as well, we're being forced to go online and check in with the servers anyways.

5. More detailed flight / mission summaries ( Could apply to single player too ).

If not, then players can have the option to quickly bypass the end-mission / statistic review. There's really not all that much data to review right now and most servers have you wait at this screen for at least a minute until the next mission loads… It's rather dull. I'd love to see a flight log of the engagement or at least maybe a map overlay of where everyone traveled. Also, give us the option to chat if we have to wait.

If you made it this far and actually read everything, thank you. I rarely write this much about anything, but ever since stumbling upon Rise of Flight I've become very passionate about it. I only want the game to get even better, neoqb to be rewarded for their hard work and loyal customers to enjoy the flight / fight anytime!
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#65 awreaper

awreaper
  • Posts: 79

Posted 27 August 2009 - 18:36

I agree. I would like to see a comprimise solution about the authentication. I understand their reasons for doing this but there must be a work around. I would suggest a cache system where you have up to 3-4 unauthenticated logons before you are locked out. If the main authentication server could not be reached, your cache counter would increase by one. When a successful authentication takes place, it is reset. When it reaches the max number, you are locked out until authentication takes place again. I would think that would be easy enough to implement. You could also limit the game to practice mode only or practice and off-line missions only when authentication fails.

It seems to me that most of the game reviews rip ROF for this feature. I wonder how many people have put off buying it in hopes of a different method?
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#66 vowthyn

vowthyn
  • Posts: 76

Posted 27 August 2009 - 20:19

I'm the person that really doesn't mind online authentication at all - at least so far. I suppose that I'm lucky to be among the people, which didn't have any problems with communication to authentication server yet. But with others in mind (and possibly myself in the future) I would suggest solution similar to the one in Lock On - Flaming Cliffs 1.12a/b. The difference is that FC got Starforce, not online authentication, but the important part is that you are forced to put CD in only once for a week - then SF is checking whether your copy is legit and you are free to play the game anytime withouth a CD in the drive for next week. It works perfect for FC and Star Force, so I suppose that it would work also for RoF and online activation.

If nothing like this or other is going to change, than let's hope that either Neoqb authentication servers will be perfectly reliable in the future for all the time, so we don't have the problems with playing RoF anytime we like, or they will broke such often, that they will be forced to change the authentication method :-)
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#67 Sirocco

Sirocco
  • Posts: 1966

Posted 27 August 2009 - 21:18

Here's a general suggestion that also might help with multiplayer. When you're setting up options for a flight - unlimited ammo, icons, padlock, etc. - have a list of templates; rookie, experienced, full realism, for example. Depending on which option you choose certain items are ticked. You can still tick those options manually for greater control. But then when you're setting up a server for multiplayer you could use that to show at a glance what kind of experience people can expect.

Attached Files


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#68 TX-EcoDragon

TX-EcoDragon
  • Posts: 656

Posted 27 August 2009 - 21:24

Here's ours: http://www.txsquadron.com/forum/index.php?topic=3032.msg15585#msg15585

I'd have posted it here but it's not in the format requested.
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#69 stethnorun

stethnorun
  • Posts: 571

Posted 27 August 2009 - 23:09

Cool thanks Dragon. I've been lazy with the updating so I'll do it tonight or tomorrow.
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#70 Miggins

Miggins
  • Posts: 3115

Posted 27 August 2009 - 23:43

Here's a general suggestion that also might help with multiplayer. When you're setting up options for a flight - unlimited ammo, icons, padlock, etc. - have a list of templates; rookie, experienced, full realism, for example. Depending on which option you choose certain items are ticked. You can still tick those options manually for greater control. But then when you're setting up a server for multiplayer you could use that to show at a glance what kind of experience people can expect.

Thats a damn fine suggestion Sirrocco. I'll suggest our server gets a "Rookie" appended to the name.
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#71 Leaf85

Leaf85
  • Posts: 44

Posted 28 August 2009 - 01:49

Appologies if this has been mentioned, but we could use a decent server admin tool in order to kick/ban smacktards (temp and perma). Thanks!
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#72 Chaos

Chaos
  • Posts: 624

Posted 28 August 2009 - 02:08

MP Customized options for plane eg Fuel load, Skin, gun settings. To be saved so we don't have to re-configure each time we play.
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#73 athlondude

athlondude
  • Posts: 515

Posted 28 August 2009 - 02:58

Appologies if this has been mentioned, but we could use a decent server admin tool in order to kick/ban smacktards (temp and perma). Thanks!

Along with this, (I know a mentioned something similar to this before), but how about instead of having to deal with tweaking the dedicated server data file to configure a dedicated server, why not have a gui interface that will allow you to creat your own files. I think that would make things easier for those of us that aren't as versed in that sort of thing.
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#74 JFM

JFM
  • Posts: 153
  • LocationNaples, FL, USA

Posted 28 August 2009 - 12:54

Hello,

Many more two-seaters, even if AI.

Flyable multi-engine bombers.

No shimmers.

Those tall, skinny trees you see lining roads in France and Belgium. Don’t know the genus but they’re everywhere.

Additional historically accurate airfields, such as Roucourt and Boistrancourt.

Seasons. Including falling leaves in late autumn and falling snow in late autumn through early spring.

Structural icing.

Dynamic weather. Misty mornings that clear; cumulus clouds that develop in late morning; storms that develop. Variable weather, too. May be clear at your aerodrome but raining across the lines, and when you return to your aerodrome it is clear again. Or, as you return to your aerodrome the weather gets worse and is raining by your return.

In-cockpit damage (smashed gauges, holes in fabric, holes in windscreen, holes in instrument panel, etc.)

Radiator damage (leaking water, steam, eventual engine overheating)

Propeller damage from bullets.

Bullets can cause flat tires.

Clouds that move with wind.

Ability to select flare colors.

Increased vehicular traffic, to include horse-drawn vehicles, guns, etc.

River traffic.

Values for convergence/fuel/loadout retain user preference without needing to be reset every time the sim is flown.

Coastal and England map for eventual Gotha/Friedrichshafen/Zeppelin-Staaken R/Zeppelin campaigns.

Parachutes for Germans in 1918.
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#75 Sirocco

Sirocco
  • Posts: 1966

Posted 28 August 2009 - 13:24

GENERAL
FSX style sliders for road traffic, river traffic, friendly and enemy aircraft

The user can decide the balance he or she wants between graphics and in game activity.
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#76 Sirocco

Sirocco
  • Posts: 1966

Posted 28 August 2009 - 13:25

Dynamic weather. Misty mornings that clear; cumulus clouds that develop in late morning; storms that develop. Variable weather, too. May be clear at your aerodrome but raining across the lines, and when you return to your aerodrome it is clear again. Or, as you return to your aerodrome the weather gets worse and is raining by your return.

+1
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#77 hq_Jorri

hq_Jorri
  • Posts: 14143

Posted 28 August 2009 - 14:11

Dynamic weather. Misty mornings that clear; cumulus clouds that develop in late morning; storms that develop. Variable weather, too. May be clear at your aerodrome but raining across the lines, and when you return to your aerodrome it is clear again. Or, as you return to your aerodrome the weather gets worse and is raining by your return.

In-cockpit damage (smashed gauges, holes in fabric, holes in windscreen, holes in instrument panel, etc.)

Clouds that move with wind.

Ability to select flare colors.

Increased vehicular traffic, to include horse-drawn vehicles, guns, etc.

River traffic.

These. Although I am sure there will be a hell of a lot of work involved in adding weather features, but I can always dream…
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#78 Sirocco

Sirocco
  • Posts: 1966

Posted 28 August 2009 - 14:28

What I'd also like to see is the campaign mode being almost free flight. The war is progressing all on its own; patrols are being flown, scouts are overflying the front, bombers are hitting targets. You just slot into an ongoing environment. But on top of that you get to step out of the mission restriction for flights. For example if you have a couple of new rookie pilots in your squadron you could take them up for a familiarisation flight. The distance and time you fly increases their navigation skills, making it easier for them to make it back to the airfield alone if required. Of course the further you fly and the longer you're up the greater the chance you could be jumped by marauding enemy aircraft. Perhaps it could be an option; want to fly this routine patrol, or prefer to take up one or more of your new pilots?
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#79 redcoat22

redcoat22
  • Posts: 840

Posted 28 August 2009 - 16:09

To expand on gun jams:

Clearing a gun should be variable. Maybe one click, maybe fiftenn, maybe permanent.
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#80 Furbs

Furbs
  • Posts: 23

Posted 28 August 2009 - 16:50

server side option …

no outside views until dead or clicked finish.

at the moment im sure some people use them to spot planes and to stop getting bounced.
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