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HALL sensor wireing (simped)


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#1 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 00:51

Just interested if anyone knows how the simped Hallsensor wireing is.
I would like to know where the +5, GND and SIGN on its Hall sensor are (its sadly not marked).
I would like to keep the sensor in the pedals, but connect it to the Leo bodnar ultra precision controller to increase the accuracy.
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#2 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:09

Unfortunately the hall sensor in the rudder is built in to the Simpeds own circuit board, so you can't just bypass it. It might still be possible to use the BU0836X card using one of the hall sensors Leo sells.

Image

We were discussing recently on the Skeleton Crew bbs whether you could upgrade the Simpeds using one of Leo's controllers:
http://www.skeletoncrew.ca/forum/index.php?topic=57.msg381#msg381
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#3 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:29

Thanks for the reply.
The Hall sensor in the simpeds is mounted so that its hard to mod.
Was acctually thinking to just solder the wires directly on the hall sensor pins and connect to the Bodnar controler and keep the simpeds unpluged, but I am not sure if that will work.
I dont want to remowe the Hall sensor from the original Simped PCB though.
Maybe its better to get a new hall sensor and just mount it in an improwised fashion to where it currently is originaly in the simpeds.
The original Simped resolution is really starting to get on my nerves - I constantly am oscilating and especially in the middle it has a plenty of deadzone.
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#4 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:41

Maybe its better to get a new hall sensor and just mount it in an improwised fashion to where it currently is originaly in the simpeds.
I would try that first.

The original Simped resolution is really starting to get on my nerves - I constantly am oscilating and especially in the middle it has a plenty of deadzone.
I had the same problem, I found my rudder (not Simpeds) was only giving me 256 discrete positions. I disconnected the rudder pot from my Cougar controller and connected it directly to one of Leo's BU0836X controllers, now I'm getting 3600 discrete positions and finding the rudder a lot more user friendly (not swing side to side all the time) and my aim has improved.
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#5 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:58

I did this first with my fighterstick (256 discrete points as well) - it was a bit too crude for really fine adjustements and now I got 4092 per axis.
Simpeds only have 128 discrete points and in the middle it jumps from 64 to 67 or 61 (depending on direction) meaning you basicly get a 4% deadzone by default.
Started to really annoy me now - I fear headons because of that (I never can lineup immidiatly and smoothly - always one or two oscilations)
And I have plenty of axis inputs on the Bodnar controler left (have one for my mini thumb throttle + my two fighterstick ones)
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#6 piecost

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 02:00

I have an Simped and find that if I apply full right rudder it looses the centre position. Moving it left and right over full travel restores the correct centre. Any ideas on what is happening?
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#7 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 14:16

Never experianced that problem before. Maybe try recalibrating it in the control panel.

As for my problem - had a busy morning and I tried installing a hall sensor that we put into one part in our company. Sadly there are no exact specs for it in its drawing (go figure) so it was a full on experiment - try and see the result.
Result was bad and I tried rewiering and still nothing usefull - just one value or nothing.
So I decided to risk it and pulled appart the simpeds.
I left the hall sensor exactly where it is originaly soldered on the PCB, but I added my wires directly to the terminals of the Hall sensor (on the top side).
I wired it exactly like on the picture above (I think its a standard overall) and it worked first time out.
Really good as well.
I dont get the complete 4092 discrete points range, but I get the middle range - giving me around 1300 discrete points and no deadzone in the middle whatsoever.
Did a short flight test - much easier to immidatly line up on a target - I am kicking myself that I didnt do this much sooner.
I can strongly recomend this mod for the fighterstick and the simpeds.
A shame I didnt take pictures when I modded both - I am sure many people would find it usefull - especially as the Leo Bodnar Ultra precision controler is very inexpencive (considering what it can do).
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#8 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 13:11

I left the hall sensor exactly where it is originaly soldered on the PCB, but I added my wires directly to the terminals of the Hall sensor (on the top side).

Any chance of posting a photo?
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#9 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 16:50

Sry I didnt take any photos of change. Really silly of me as well.
I can describe it a bit better perhaps:

I opened the bottom of the Simped pedals (screws are in the pads that fix the pedals to the floor).
Than I unscrewed the small screws that hold the cover for the simped PCB and HALL sensor mount.
When youtake away the cover you see the bottom side of the PCB with all the electronic elements - except the HALL sensor which is on the other side.
I took out the PCB plate and turned it around so that I could see the HALL sensor..
Directly from the HALL sensor there are the three terminals that are bent over the plastic fixture for the HALL sensor (plastic fixture is maunted on the PCB).
I soldered my wires to these terminals on the bottom of the bend - still over the plastic mounting fixture.
I soldered it really finely - even had to reduce the connecting wire diameter a bit to allow for a good solder result.
On the connecting wire I remowed the isolation for about 6cm so that I had 3 loose wires - so that they were easi to route under the PCB.
Than I assembled the PCB back in its original position - I routed my new cable wires so that they come out where the original wires come from the top (the new ones come from the bottom). I used the same cable slot to exit out of the pedals (left the original USB wiering in as well).
Screwed the cover back on, than the complete SIMPED rear plate and the fixture pads.
Pluged the new cable into the Bodnar controler, repluged the Bodnar USB and calibrated the pedals.
The wireing is like on the top picture, however the HALL sensor is mounted upside down in the plastic fixture so you have to pay attention that you dont wire it wrongly.
It is crucial that you solder the connecting wires in such a position that they dont obstruct the reasembly of the PCB in the simpeds.
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#10 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 17:51

The wireing is like on the top picture, however the HALL sensor is mounted upside down in the plastic fixture so you have to pay attention that you dont wire it wrongly.

So would this be the correct for the wiring?

Image
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#11 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 20:42

yes - solder the wires just where the top of the blue / red letters start.
Although your Hall sensor looks a bit different - is it that V form like the Hall sensor that Leo sells?
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#12 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 21:14

Just a very old set of Simped varios, the sort with the dip switches on the gameport plug (no toe brakes).

Image

Image

Do you have toe brakes on yours?
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#13 O_Taipan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 22:00

Cool stuff, I don't know if I have a Deadzone with the F16s or not, I just thought the centre issue is due to detent and I work around it by rolling a bit.

Having toe brakes is the only thing that would stop me doing this, but while the Bodnar is wired in, can you also plug it in and use it like normal?

Eg use Simped device for some sims and Bodnar for others?

Otherwise could look around see if I can find how to connect to the pressure sensors
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#14 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 22:14

No toe brakes for me - PCB looks quite simmilar though.
I would strongly not suggest to have the Simped pedals pluged in while having this mod.
Much better to also rewire the toe breaks to the Bodnar controler as it has 8 axis you can use.
This way you get more resolution on those as well + you are safe with the mod.
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#15 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 22:31

The problem is the toe brakes don't appear to be using potentiometers (just two wires running to each brake).
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#16 O_Taipan

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 02:27

Peter - what about power? Normally USB gives power to the pedals, how do they get power if not plugged in?

Sid are your toe brakes also pressure pads?

Behind the pedals I see two pressure pads with foam on top, when pedal is pushed, a metal lump on the back of the pedals pushes on this foam.

Maybe all that is needed is to run these wires to Bodnar 2 more axis?
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#17 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 03:08

Peter - what about power? Normally USB gives power to the pedals, how do they get power if not plugged in?
Leo's BU0836X controller is usb, it would provide the power, if you plug the Simpeds in normally as well the hall sensor would be powered by two different power sources (not a good idea).

Image


Sid are your toe brakes also pressure pads?

Behind the pedals I see two pressure pads with foam on top, when pedal is pushed, a metal lump on the back of the pedals pushes on this foam.

Maybe all that is needed is to run these wires to Bodnar 2 more axis?
Will have to have a look when I get time (I have the "Add-on Brakes"). Not sure how this pressure pad works, is it a resistor?
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#18 O_Taipan

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 05:46

I'll have a look see if I can take a photo of the brakes.

Can you guys recommend a good Soldering station that can do this stuff without damaging?
I might make some button boards for my cockpit too if I get the Bodnar controller.
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#19 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 10:11

Eg use Simped device for some sims and Bodnar for others?

This could also potentionaly work - if you unplug one of them each time.
So in RoF if you fly without toe breaks, than you use connect to the Leo controler only.
Than you go to a different sim - you unplug the Leo controler and than plug in the simpeds.
Should be no problem really.
I would personally go for the full conversion if I were you though.

Soldering station -> something small and fine. Its very small space there and you can heat up stuff very quickly so you have to have a steady hand and be patient.
Also make sure you get good solder wire otherwise it will be a nightmare.
I had some wire that came with my cheap solder station and it was terrible - couldnt even properly presolder the wires.
Luckily I had some proper solder wire so than it was ok.
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#20 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 22:03

Great MacGyver skills there Peter :)

Congrats for the idea and the positive result … and the sharing :)

Will come back to you later ;) (maybe I give it also a try) … now I am very short of time.


:S!:
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#21 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 23:11

Sure Sahaj - contact me and we will talk over TS about it.
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#22 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 12:48

Had a bit of a play.

First I connected up my old rig (TM Cougar + Simpeds) to confirm what resolution I was getting with this setup as standard.

Image

With the Simpeds connected to the Cougar, I get 256 discrete positions (128 either side of central) on the Rudder axis and each Brake axis (the same for the Cougar's Throttle, Range, & Ant axes, i.e. the Cougar uses an 8-bit controller on these axes, compared with the 13-bit controller (8192 discrete positions) on the X & Y axes).

A few photos dismantling the Simpeds.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

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The PCB has four wires connected, marked (from left to right) GND, OutD, VCC, OutA.

Initially I tried connecting these wires straight to Leo's BU0836X controller.

With GND, OutA, VCC connected, I still get 256 positions but the output isn't linear, seems to be some sort of logarithmic output moving slower in the centre section of travel and faster at the edges.

With GND, OutD, VCC connected, the resolution increased to around 830 discrete positions (415 either side of central) on the Rudder axis and appears to be a linear output.

Next I tried connecting directly to the Hall Sensor (you must have extremely good eye sight and a very steady hand Peter), I struggled to make a neat job of this.

Image

The result was the same as with GND, OutD, VCC connected, the resolution increased to around 830 discrete positions (415 either side of central) on the Rudder axis and appears to be a linear output.

I couldn’t get the "1300 discrete points" your seeing, although 830 is still a 3 fold or better increase, but no where near as good as the 3600 resolution I'm getting using a standard potentiometer and the same BU0836X controller in my current setup.

With the GND, OutD, VCC wires giving the same results, I wonder if it is possible just to buy a Female Gameport conector, and wire that to the BU0836X controller.

The Simpeds connector blocks look interesting though, lots of cross connection points here, so that might not be possible (will have to get a Female Gameport connector at some point and have a play).

Image
Connector Simpeds to Cougar.

Image
Connector Brakes to Simpeds.

I haven't had a chance to play around with the Brakes, but they're certainly using a pressure pad, 0 volt with no pressure, 5 volt with full pressure.
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#23 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 09:02

Good one - thank you for the pictures.
I reckon that my simpeds and your simpeds differ acctually.
Seems like the Hall sensor might be different - giving different voltage as yours is also older it seems (with that connector).
Because of that I get more discrete points I figure.
Of course if you have a pot and use it wisely (IE - use its full range from 0 - 5 volt) than you could get up to 4092 discrete points with the bodnar controler.
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#24 O_Taipan

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 16:10

Hi Sid, which software are you testing # of discrete positions?

My TARGET software only shows the warthog devices, not the simpeds, although my simpeds are direct usb
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#25 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 17:06

I use just regural windows device manager - than go to calibrate and show raw data.
All works fine (use them for all my joystics BTW)

And there is one big difference between our simpeds Sid - you have a gameport connector and I have USB - hence the problme of finding the right wires directly and my need to connect to the Hallsensor directly.
You also made a nicer job of soldering than me - I was cursing as mad when I did it. But it was well worth the effort.
The biggest improvement acctually is no deadzone in the middle like the original simpeds have. That was driving me mad before.
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#26 O_Taipan

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 18:23

Which windows Peter?

Windows 7 calibration is only via a Wizard.

I just downloaded FOXY the cougar software and tried it's joystick analyser, it only shows a percentage but if I count the number of jumps I see per square, it works out to only 70 unique values per side.

And I can see the huge deadzone! I think I'll order a bodnar controller when he's back next year
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#27 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 19:21

Windows 7 pro 64 bit
Just normal devices and printers, right click on whatever game controler, manager, select game controler settings, click properties than settings and than calibrate.

Attached Files


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#28 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 19:26

Method 1

In Foxy's Joystick Analyser you can select any joystick type device connected to your computer (it doesn't have to be a Cougar/Warthog) via the Joystick ID drop down.

Image

To view the DirectX values select the "Values as range 0 to 65535" from the Display options drop down.

Image

Just look to see what the smallest steps in value are and then dived 65536 by that.

i.e. 65536/256 = 256 or an 8-bit controller

256 discrete positions = 8-bit controller
1024 discrete positions = 10-bit controller
4096 discrete positions = 12-bit controller
16384 discrete positions = 14-bit controller
65536 discrete positions = 16-bit controller


Method 2

In Win7 (C:\Windows\System32\joy.cpl)

When you run the calibration Wizard and select show raw data. Note the max and min values here and just subtract one from the other.

Image


If neither of those methods work

Method 3 Bit of a download involved if you don't have AH installed

Download Aces High and install (free to download, you don't need to sign up for anything). AH Download page
Run the game - Select Offline Practice - Options - Controls - Map Controllers - Select the controller you want at the top, view the DirectX values here.

Just look to see what the smallest steps in value are and then dived 65536 by that.

i.e. 65536/256 = 256 or an 8-bit controller

256 discrete positions = 8-bit controller
1024 discrete positions = 10-bit controller
4096 discrete positions = 12-bit controller
16384 discrete positions = 14-bit controller
65536 discrete positions = 16-bit controller

Image


Similar discussion going on here: Rudder sensitivity
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#29 O_Taipan

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 02:57

Thanks guys!

I had stopped at calibrate the minute it said move the stick to the left and click next etc, I didn't want to ruin my rudder calibration.. when I go furthere into it I see the raw data.

And sadly, 64 values either side and a deadzone! These are only 2 years old, USB F-16 model too.

Leo Bodnar is moving, so no sales until next year but I'll order a controller then and get a soldering kit.
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#30 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 17:34

It only takes over the calibration once you finnish the complete procedure and press apply.
And that resolution is normal on the USB Simpeds.
That is why I so strongly recommend the mod.
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#31 O_Taipan

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 02:37

And it's why I can't recommend the pedals anymore :)

They do have nice smooth movement and a wide footprint which is good, but just like the warthog they are an advanced product and need tweaking to be at their best
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#32 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 18:25

…. With the GND, OutD, VCC wires giving the same results, I wonder if it is possible just to buy a Female Gameport connector, and wire that to the BU0836X controller.

The Simpeds connector blocks look interesting though, lots of cross connection points here, so that might not be possible (will have to get a Female Gameport connector at some point and have a play).

Image
Connector Simpeds to Cougar.

Image
Connector Brakes to Simpeds.

I haven't had a chance to play around with the Brakes, but they're certainly using a pressure pad, 0 volt with no pressure, 5 volt with full pressure.

Having got hold of a Female Gameport Connector, I've managed to connect the Simpeds to Leo's controller giving the Simpeds better resolution and an independent USB-PC connection.

Just a reminder my Simped vario's are the gameport version, with separate add-on foot brakes.

Here's a diagram of the wiring layout the Cougar expects for Brakes + Rudder (It's not a diagram of the wiring layout in the Simpeds, but the connections to the BU0836X Controller should be similar).

Image

I'm wiring the opposite side of this (i.e. what this would plug into), and recon the connections should be like this.

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The most difficult bit with wiring this up, is getting the orientation of the side your going to solder to correct (here a few photos to help).

Image

perhaps a bit clearer if I put a piece of paper between the two rows

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A bit of Heat-Shrinkable Sleeving just to insulate the connections

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And at the BU0836X Controller end of the cable.

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Image

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Having plugged this in, the Brakes worked fine but the Rudder was still giving just 256 positions and some sort of logarithmic output moving slower in the centre section of travel and faster at the edges (remember that from the previous post?)

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Simply swapping the white and yellow wires on the Simped rudder board cures this.

Image

Final result (using DIView)

Image

Linear output from the Rudders, 930 discrete positions (up from 256).

Left and Right Brake, 3800 discrete positions (up from 256).

Parts used:
Leo Bodnar BU0836X Controller http://www.leobodnar...oducts/BU0836X/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.leobodnar...oducts/BU0836X/
USB 2.0 A to B Lead (L01BT) http://www.maplin.co...o-b-leads-97264" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.maplin.co...o-b-leads-97264
D-Sub 15-way Socket (BK59P) http://www.maplin.co...connectors-1113" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.maplin.co...connectors-1113
D-Sub Hood 15-way (FP28F) http://www.maplin.co...-sub-hoods-1125" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.maplin.co...-sub-hoods-1125
Heat-Shrinkable Sleeving (Various) http://www.maplin.co...le-sleeving-301" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.maplin.co...le-sleeving-301
N08GC Transparent Blue Box (1591DT) http://www.maplin.co...closures-224565" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.maplin.co...1591xx-ip54-tra … res-224565


I've ordered one of Leo's hall sensors

Image

So I'll try replacing that when it gets here and let you know if it improves the resolution any more.
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#33 piecost

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 20:50

Fantastic write-up sid, I may need this information when my pedals finally give-up
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#34 =AH=_Sid

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 18:30

The magnetic (Hall effect) Sensor arrived from Leo, I'm very pleased to say I've now got the resolution from my Simpeds up to 2477 discrete positions using it (up from 256 originally, 930 with the BU0836X card and the original hall sensor). See this post for why I think this is worth doing.

The main problem is mounting the new sensor, I'm sure there are many ways to this, so I'll just describe a few points I noted in testing and give you an idea of how I set mine up, but you might come up with a better way of doing this.

Notes
    . The first thing to note is how small this sensor is. (the original Simped circuit board on the left) Image . It has a flat side with a circle imprinted on it on one side, and an angular side with writing on it on the other. . Having the "angular side" facing the magnet gave me better resolution than the other way round (you might want to test this again for yourself). . The closer the sensor is mounted to the magnet the better the resolution (although you obviously don't want it to be actually touching). . The nearer the point of rotation of the magnet the less the resolution. . The further away from the point of rotation of the magnet the greater the resolution (up to a point, if the magnets edge goes beyond the sensor the signal reverses direction). . The centre position of the rudders is very sensitive to the sensor being positioned correctly on the centre line of the magnet.

I tried a few methods out for mounting the sensor. It soon became obvious it needed to done in such away that you can move it, test it, move it, test it, etc, etc, to find the perfect position. It's so small it just about fits on the outside of the case directly below the magnet, So I mounted the sensor on a small piece of plastic (just cut from the packaging a case fan came in).

Image

Then to allow a little more space for this and to be sure the magnet wouldn’t actually be touching the sensor, I added a small washer to the to the spindle just behind the magnet and some more strips of "shimming" to the case for the ball bearings to rotate on.

(Note in the picture below the original hole has been made bigger, this was part of a previous experiment, you shouldn’t have to do this)

Image

The plastic and sensor was just held in position with tape to begin with (which allowed flexibility in moving it's position around).

Image

The colour coding of the wiring is as before (Brown +5V, Green GND, Yellow INPUT) (note the yellow wire was the one originally connected to "OutA" on the original Simped circuit board, the additional white wire I have just insulated).

Image

Make sure you understand the orientation of the sensor in the above picture, the sensor has the flat side with a circle imprinted on it facing towards the camera (on the other side of the case), the metal connection tails are pointing back towards the spindle hole as they come out of the sensor and have then been very carefully bent back and under the sensor (inside the case). Make sure these metal connection tails aren't touching each other at any point (it's easiest to pre-solder both the wire and tails with solder before mounting the sensor).

Image

Finding the correct position for the sensor was a little tedious and took me about four hours. The best resolution is obtained mounting the sensor as far forward as possible without the axis (in DirectX) reversing direction at the ends of travel, this happens as the magnets edge goes out of range of the sensor. I started in a very forward position and worked back until this reversal didn't occur, at the same time I was striving to get the "Raw" centre position to around 2048 (half the BU0836X card 4096 steps). As I say it's tedious as each new position requires the pedals to be partially re-built, connected and calibrated in windows, tested, dismantled, sensor repositioned, repeat the process, repeat the process, repeat the process, repeat the process, repeat the process, you get the idea.

Image

When I was absolutely certain I had the position as perfect as I was going to get it,

Image

I used a hot glue gun to firmly set the sensor and it's plastic mount firmly in place.

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(Note the way the cable should wrap around the cable holder to prevent the wiring being disturb if the cable gets tugged)

Final results in DIView.

Image

3809 discrete positions on the Right Brake.
2477 discrete positions on the Rudder axis.
3803 discrete positions on the Left Brake.

The width of the magnet appears to be the limiting factor preventing getting more of the BU0836X cards 4096 steps, the only way to get more (using the BU0836X card) would be to fit a wider magnet (I think). Still a very good result, up almost ten fold on the 256 discrete positions I originally stared with, and more than double the 1024 discrete positions most joysticks have an their X & Y axis.

Of course another way to get an even better resolution would be to use a card with a higher number of steps (higher bit ADC), like I did here with the old Cougar cards! ;)
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#35 O_Taipan

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 23:31

Excellent info Sid!

I'm not ready to do this yet (Multimonitor is my next project). But I'll be ordering the board from Bodnar soon and a soldering iron, as something must be done..
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#36 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 02:59

Meanwhile by Peter and Sahaj ;)

With the help of Peter I moded my Simpeds today and everything works fine, big thanks to Peter for that !

Here some evidence :

Image

Image

Image

From 128 dp to 1285 dp through smoledering business ;)

:S!:
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#37 Zigrat

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  • Posts: 40

Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:23

How hard was this? I have gameport F-16 simpeds and I'd like to convert them to USB but I don't have much experience with this stuff.
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#38 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 15 March 2012 - 23:31

How hard was this? I have gameport F-16 simpeds and I'd like to convert them to USB but I don't have much experience with this stuff.

It will bypass the gameport, since you connect the Bodnar board directly to the sensor.

As to how hard it is, I haven't done it yet but it looks very hard and fiddly!

I will probably do it when I get more time, but having toe brakes complicates things. I may just plug in the normal USB when I want toe brakes in Jet sims.
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#39 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

1PL-Sahaj-1Esk
  • Posts: 940

Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:26

Zigrat,

its doable for someone who didn't do anything like that before, good equipment (precise smoldering gun) will help a lot. With Peters guide on TS I did it myself with a crappy (almost archaic) smoldering gun from my father.

:S!:
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kpt. pil. / Capt. Sahaj / Operations Officer / 1. Eskadra Mysliwska / 1. Pulk Lotniczy / http://www.1pl.boo.pl

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http://warthog-extensions-by-sahaj.com


#40 nebuluz

nebuluz
  • Posts: 9
  • LocationPoland

Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:24

I'm also already a user mod. Notice the pins in the plate leobodnar. Any number of pins is another axis (x, y, z). Cables connected to the third row (z).
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