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Overwing Lewis-Brit Nieu 17


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#1 Zoltann

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:30

Hi all,

A long standing wish of mine, hoped for but not found in fieldmods, is a Nieu17 with lewis as used by Brits.

I know 777 resources are tight and I dont expect it soon. However with the updated flight model, maybe the time is ripe to make an mod?
The Nieu11 has all the graphics and stuff. It would still be an approximation as it has no foster mount, but would be great anyway. (also for some early french nieu17s)

Can it be done? :roll:

Cheers, Zol.

Edit: silly me…the SE5a has all stuff better still! :mrgreen:
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#2 Baal2

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 11:58

Good idea!
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#3 Miggins

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 14:39

I'd take one.

We would need a higher rate of fire for the Lewis, and the reduced weight taken into consideration too, and even get a delay after 97 rounds before being able to fire again (reload animation might be problematical I suppose), but an N17 with the Lewis might find a fanbase ready to try it out for sure.
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#4 EclecticRazor

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 14:44

I don't think the reload animation would be a problem - just use the magical one on the SE5a. Would be a nice version of the Nieuport, even as a new plane I would spring for it.
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#5 WWIFlyingAce

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 14:47

I'm kinda surprised it hasn't been offered already. Obviously the N11 has one and the SE5 has both…
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#6 HotTom

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 15:56

If it was offered as a separate aircraft model, I would buy it in a heartbeat!

Great idea!
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#7 gavagai

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 16:06

The trouble is that aircraft seem to be a single 3d model, not separate 3d chunks attached together. They probably start off as separate 3d bits, but what the game loads up is one model. So someone would have to build a new N17 3d model by accessing those smaller 3d parts, and then merging them together into one model.

There's also the problem of whether such a mod would even be allowed in RoF. Trying to change anything on a scout gives you the "you do not own" message. So in the world objects folder, editing the N17 file to attach your new 3d model would give you the error message.

Yes, this is all very frustrating.

————-

Performance differences are another thing entirely. If you want the slightly reduced weight of the gun, then someone is going to say you have to factor in the increased drag, and so on… :roll:
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#8 HotTom

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 16:13

Gav, that's why I suggest a separate aircraft model, not a mod.
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#9 redcoat22

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 16:14

If this is implemented I will gift 20 of them
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#10 Zoltann

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 16:33

Wow…quite some responses

Reading gavagais comments I suppose a quick and dirty fix as a mod is technically unlikely.
That leaves us with an request to the devs to build one, with most of the work already done maybe a quick way to raise revenue?

Ball, Bishop ect. flew the bird, and a real mainstream aircraft too..

I suggest the Nieu 17bis, with lewis AND vickers! :mrgreen: Could be a real seller :idea:

ah, wishes…

Zol
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#11 HotTom

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 16:54

The Nieuport 17 bis was flown only by 6 RNAS (they were very proud of having the first British fighter with two MGs, even before 56 Squadron's SEs).

Nungesser was the most famous French pilot to fly the N17 bis, It, too, saw only limited service with the French.

Something of an oddball type. I would stick to mainstream aircraft first and the N17 with a Lewis was certainly that.
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#12 gavagai

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 18:10

This is why I made that post about variants and our willingness to purchase them. I too would happily hand over my money for a British N17, a N17bis, etc. I cannot commit to gifting 20 of them, however! Just imagine what the wife would say. :?
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#13 HotTom

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 19:06

Yes. if they build it, I will buy it.

But I'd rather see the dev time and energy spent on a/c that played a more significant role.

I don't see a post of yours in this thread about variants?
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#14 gavagai

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 19:15

Sorry, I was referring to a post in another thread.
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#15 HotTom

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 19:18

Sorry, I was referring to a post in another thread.

My bad. I try to keep up with your posts but you set a helluva pace :mrgreen:

:S!:

HT
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#16 Zoltann

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:35

@ HotTom:

"Yes. if they build it, I will buy it.

But I'd rather see the dev time and energy spent on a/c that played a more significant role."


Are u kidding? This is a RFC mainstay fighter, in its Lewis configuration.

The present Nieu17 is therefore clearly more suited for french escadrilles.
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#17 Winston60

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 18:33

I suggest the Nieu 17bis, with lewis AND vickers! :mrgreen: Could be a real seller :idea:

Zol
Yes, the 2 gun bis would be a top kite I'm sure. I can't imagine why it isn't modeled here yet. Seems like it would be easy to create as all the "pieces" have already been designed.

Image
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#18 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 19:09

New engine physics, new FM, new 3D model (different fuselage) requiring new UV map and texturing. Which means it's almost as complicated as building a new plane.


I am sure it will be a cool plane though :) That profile is excellent.
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#19 HotTom

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 19:30

@ HotTom:

"Yes. if they build it, I will buy it.

But I'd rather see the dev time and energy spent on a/c that played a more significant role."


Are u kidding? This is a RFC mainstay fighter, in its Lewis configuration.

The present Nieu17 is therefore clearly more suited for french escadrilles.

We're discussing the Noop 17 bis, which carried both a Vickers and a Lewis.

As I said, only one British squadron used the 17 bis: 6 RNAS. The RFC never used the N17 bis at all.

Maybe I need to be more careful with the pronoun "it." I wasn't talking about the the N17 Lewis. :mrgreen:
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#20 Zoltann

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 16:03

@ HotTom: Cheers mate, were on the same track after all :D

@ ImPeRaToR: True, unfortunately. However I would happely settle for the standart conversion of the existing Nieu17 with deletion of the vickers and application of the top lewis… :x

All bits are there as implied so could be quick revenue-happy customers package.

Maybe start a poll for it…
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#21 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 16:26

@ ImPeRaToR: True, unfortunately. However I would happely settle for the standart conversion of the existing Nieu17 with deletion of the vickers and application of the top lewis… :x


That would actually be a standard N17 as the RFC used them if I am not mistaken. I am sure we will see it eventually down the road, better buy some gifts to make sure we do :D
However, such a conversion would still require a new FM as the weight allocation would change and the Lewis would create a bit more drag.
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#22 Nixou

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 07:10

However, such a conversion would still require a new FM as the weight allocation would change and the Lewis would create a bit more drag.


Yes, however the much lighter lewis largely compensated for the drag induced and i'm pretty sure they have the exact same speed. :) You are right for the center of mass.

Taking away the vickers is really easy job is a matter of alpha layer modding like they do with optical sights. This can be done by any skinner.

I can't see how it is a problem for them who have the original 3d models to add a Lewis 3d model. It's not doing it from the scratch at all, the most used 3d programs have "import and assemble models" feature.
:)
No really it would be definitely less time consuming than doing a completely new aircraft and would sell quite a lot IMO :)
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#23 Zoltann

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:31

@ ImPeRaToR:

Buy some stuff yourself mate. I have all there is to buy including pre-orders, and then some 6 planes I donated as encouragement for the series to a online friend.

If this business model of 777 is not an astounding succes I am not to blame. :mrgreen:



@ Nicky:

"Yes, however the much lighter lewis largely compensated for the drag induced and i'm pretty sure they have the exact same speed. You are right for the center of mass.

Taking away the vickers is really easy job is a matter of alpha layer modding like they do with optical sights. This can be done by any skinner.

I can't see how it is a problem for them who have the original 3d models to add a Lewis 3d model. It's not doing it from the scratch at all, the most used 3d programs have "import and assemble models" feature.

No really it would be definitely less time consuming than doing a completely new aircraft and would sell quite a lot IMO"

Hear, Hear…. :S!:
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#24 Pimpin

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 12:23

Make it manual reload, I'll buy it.
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#25 SirMike

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:56

I'd love one to add to the stable as well.
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#26 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:32

@ ImPeRaToR:

Buy some stuff yourself mate. I have all there is to buy including pre-orders, and then some 6 planes I donated as encouragement for the series to a online friend.

If this business model of 777 is not an astounding succes I am not to blame. :mrgreen:



@ Nicky:

"Yes, however the much lighter lewis largely compensated for the drag induced and i'm pretty sure they have the exact same speed. You are right for the center of mass.

Taking away the vickers is really easy job is a matter of alpha layer modding like they do with optical sights. This can be done by any skinner.

I can't see how it is a problem for them who have the original 3d models to add a Lewis 3d model. It's not doing it from the scratch at all, the most used 3d programs have "import and assemble models" feature.

No really it would be definitely less time consuming than doing a completely new aircraft and would sell quite a lot IMO"

Hear, Hear…. :S!:

I have and will buy stuff for myself and others (and I already have bought everything as well, including several gifts), I guess there was a slight misunderstanding which of course never happens on the internet :D


Anyway,

I can't see how it is a problem for them who have the original 3d models to add a Lewis 3d model. It's not doing it from the scratch at all, the most used 3d programs have "import and assemble models" feature.
You are right that this would probably not be too difficult, but you are mixing this up here. Niky and I were talking about the Nieuport17bis, which has a different fuselage and thusly mapping and textures will change, which is several sets of them, not just one. The N17bis also had a different engine and cowling, more things to change.


And even just adding a Lewis gun to the N17 without making it a N17bis would require a new FM, which is not that easy, otherwise we would see new planes in shorter intervalls than 6-8 weeks.
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#27 Zoltann

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 12:17

Shameless self-bump as topic seems reachable with weapon mods…

:mrgreen: Zol
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#28 gavagai

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 14:04

However, such a conversion would still require a new FM as the weight allocation would change and the Lewis would create a bit more drag.


Yes, however the much lighter lewis largely compensated for the drag induced and i'm pretty sure they have the exact same speed. :) You are right for the center of mass.

I will wager an aircraft that the single Vickers N17 is faster than the single Lewis N17. Read up about the difference between induced and parasite drag before you take me up on the offer. Of course, both weapons contribute both types of drag, but only one interferes with the primary lifting surface.
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#29 hq_Jorri

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 14:46

And even just adding a Lewis gun to the N17 without making it a N17bis would require a new FM, which is not that easy, otherwise we would see new planes in shorter intervalls than 6-8 weeks.

According to JAson, Han has said that we will see the proper effects that all these weapon mods have on the planes' FM's, so this hsould be no different. Considering the tons of different mods we are getting, apperently it can't be that hard.

Removing the Vickers from the N17, though, must be a bit harder. Even if you remove it using textures, there's the cowling that should be modified to account for there being no Vickers. Then there's the cockpit model, where also the Vickers must be removed, the cowling changed, and the drum removed from the cockpit as well as the ammo belt (which will probably leave holes in the cockpit).
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#30 Avimimus

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 17:08

And even just adding a Lewis gun to the N17 without making it a N17bis would require a new FM, which is not that easy, otherwise we would see new planes in shorter intervalls than 6-8 weeks.

According to JAson, Han has said that we will see the proper effects that all these weapon mods have on the planes' FM's, so this hsould be no different. Considering the tons of different mods we are getting, apperently it can't be that hard.

Removing the Vickers from the N17, though, must be a bit harder. Even if you remove it using textures, there's the cowling that should be modified to account for there being no Vickers. Then there's the cockpit model, where also the Vickers must be removed, the cowling changed, and the drum removed from the cockpit as well as the ammo belt (which will probably leave holes in the cockpit).

Very nice summary! Of course, it might be nice to have the ability to at least remove the ammunition from the Vickers…
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#31 hq_Jorri

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 22:51

And even just adding a Lewis gun to the N17 without making it a N17bis would require a new FM, which is not that easy, otherwise we would see new planes in shorter intervalls than 6-8 weeks.

According to JAson, Han has said that we will see the proper effects that all these weapon mods have on the planes' FM's, so this hsould be no different. Considering the tons of different mods we are getting, apperently it can't be that hard.

Removing the Vickers from the N17, though, must be a bit harder. Even if you remove it using textures, there's the cowling that should be modified to account for there being no Vickers. Then there's the cockpit model, where also the Vickers must be removed, the cowling changed, and the drum removed from the cockpit as well as the ammo belt (which will probably leave holes in the cockpit).

Very nice summary! Of course, it might be nice to have the ability to at least remove the ammunition from the Vickers…

Well in that case, you could just choose not to fire it, as well!
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#32 Avimimus

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 17:29

Well in that case, you could just choose not to fire it, as well!

That assumes self-control on my part… :geek:
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#33 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:42

If it hasn't been mentioned as a possible work-around, maybe we will be able to load out with zero ammo for the Vickers, and keep the Lewis. That would work on the servers as well, no?

Hopefully the ammo loadout will be split between the different MG's, and it won't be a shared bullet count… If so, it wouldn't be too much of an overstatement to say that would be a disastrous disappointment.
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#34 Dutch2

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 17:45

If this is implemented I will gift 20 of them


Redcoat that is great to our members here that do not have that plane

When are going to start!!!!


:S!:
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