Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Halberstadt CL.II Peroformance


  • Please log in to reply
222 replies to this topic

#81 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 06 December 2011 - 16:12

They were designed with one purpose to fly with the bombers as escorts in the beginning. The Schlahtflieger roll it was placed into later on in the war. So let say they did put bomb racks on these planes in the field as a field mod. Wouldn't that qualify as a add on like the gauges? IMHO I say no external bomb rack. It about time we modelled a hand dropped bomb anyway. This how they dropped them when the war started. Out of 900 built and no Pictures.
  • 0

#82 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 06 December 2011 - 16:16

Then bomb racks for the Camel, S.E.5a., Dolphin, Bristol and R.E.8 should also be field mods.
  • 0

#83 Frankyboy

Frankyboy
  • Posts: 806

Posted 06 December 2011 - 16:18

to make armamentoptions as fieldmods a player has to purchase, so far 777 didnt choose to go this way. would be possible with some plane, as we collected in an very old topic about that!
  • 0

#84 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6357
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 06 December 2011 - 16:26

If you don't think the aircraft had bomb racks then you should fly without bombs. Problem solved.
  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#85 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 06 December 2011 - 16:33

You are no fun david :)
  • 0

#86 MiG-77

MiG-77
  • Posts: 2651

Posted 06 December 2011 - 16:36

Then bomb racks for the Camel, S.E.5a., Dolphin, Bristol and R.E.8 should also be field mods.

Exactly, and as they are not field mods, so should not be Cl.II racks.
  • 0

#87 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6357
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 06 December 2011 - 16:40

You are no fun david :)

I know. Having said that, I think there should be more flexibility in setting up bomb loads. You should have control, within reason, of what is loaded on each hard point/rack.
  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#88 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:02

You are no fun david :)

I know. Having said that, I think there should be more flexibility in setting up bomb loads. You should have control, within reason, of what is loaded on each hard point/rack.

What part of this written conversation didn't you understand? The only hard point/rack were alongside of the fuselage near the observer. He picks them up and tosses them over the side. It was as simple as that.
  • 0

#89 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6357
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:08

The only hard point/rack were alongside of the fuselage near the observer.

I'm talking about the hard points in the photo that you're trying to pretend does not exist.

I'm also making a more general reference to any aircraft that carry bombs. The bomb loads should be more flexible.
  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#90 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:12

The only hard point/rack were alongside of the fuselage near the observer.

I'm talking about the hard points in the photo that you're trying to pretend does not exist.

I'm also making a more general reference to any aircraft that carry bombs. The bomb loads should be more flexible.

Your enoring the big "?" Question Mark that you pretend doesn't exsist.
  • 0

#91 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:14

You are no fun david :)

I know. Having said that, I think there should be more flexibility in setting up bomb loads. You should have control, within reason, of what is loaded on each hard point/rack.

What part of this written conversation didn't you understand? The only hard point/rack were alongside of the fuselage near the observer. He picks them up and tosses them over the side. It was as simple as that.

Not sure the observer can reach this rack from the cockpit:
Image


Also according to you, empty bomb racks don't count. I guess these planes only flew with empty racks as well then ;)

ImageImageImage Image

Edit: also, here is the PuW 12,5kg rack on a DFW:

Image
  • 0

#92 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6357
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:15

The only hard point/rack were alongside of the fuselage near the observer.

I'm talking about the hard points in the photo that you're trying to pretend does not exist.

I'm also making a more general reference to any aircraft that carry bombs. The bomb loads should be more flexible.

Your enoring the big "?" Question Mark that you pretend doesn't exsist.

Yes, I am, because others in here have identified the "?" as bomb racks.

Having said that, don't load your aircraft with bombs if you think it isn't realistic.
  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#93 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:32

The only hard point/rack were alongside of the fuselage near the observer.

I'm talking about the hard points in the photo that you're trying to pretend does not exist.

I'm also making a more general reference to any aircraft that carry bombs. The bomb loads should be more flexible.

Your enoring the big "?" Question Mark that you pretend doesn't exsist.

Yes, I am, because others in here have identified the "?" as bomb racks.

Having said that, don't load your aircraft with bombs if you think it isn't realistic.

Why is it out of 900 Halberstadts in World War one that we can't find one picture of bombs hanging underneath one of them? Why when you have a picture of A Halberstadt with a bomb rack (?)is it the only one in the picture?

Don't put bombs on a plane if it didn't have them.
  • 0

#94 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6357
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:37

Why is it out of 900 Halberstadts in World War one that we can't find one picture of bombs hanging underneath one of them?

Because the war was almost 100 years ago, not everyone had a camera in their cell phone back then, and the country where the photographs were stored was mostly burned to the ground about 70 years ago.
  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#95 MiG-77

MiG-77
  • Posts: 2651

Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:38

Why is it out of 900 Halberstadts in World War one that we can't find one picture of bombs hanging underneath one of them? Why when you have a picture of A Halberstadt with a bomb rack (?)is it the only one in the picture?


Because no one took picture them with bombs. Back then camera was very rare device and they probably didnt expect that in 2011 somebody would need pictorical evidence :roll:

Don't put bombs on a plane if it didn't have them.

But they did have them. Pictures of bomb rack (why you think they but bomb rack underside of Cl.II? Because they were pimping their ride? :D ) and anecdotal/ordenace evidence clearly shows that.
  • 0

#96 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 06 December 2011 - 17:45

It's a spoiler MiG-77, the wings created so much lift they needed extra downforce.
  • 0

#97 WWBrian

WWBrian
  • Posts: 2418

Posted 06 December 2011 - 18:27

Doesn't it also say in Schlachtflieger on page 174…

"A standard load on a Halberstadt Cl.II or Hannover Cl.II would be around 10 potato masher grenades stored in an open box on each side of the fuselage."

  • 0

#98 MiG-77

MiG-77
  • Posts: 2651

Posted 06 December 2011 - 18:33

Doesn't it also say in Schlachtflieger on page 174…

"A standard load on a Halberstadt Cl.II or Hannover Cl.II would be around 10 potato masher grenades stored in an open box on each side of the fuselage."

Not on page 174, but 173. Anyway that is "standard" hand grenade loadout and nothing to do with bombs. Grenades could be loaded with or without bombs.
  • 0

#99 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 06 December 2011 - 18:55

Doesn't it also say in Schlachtflieger on page 174…

"A standard load on a Halberstadt Cl.II or Hannover Cl.II would be around 10 potato masher grenades stored in an open box on each side of the fuselage."

Not on page 174, but 173. Anyway that is "standard" hand grenade loadout and nothing to do with bombs. Grenades could be loaded with or without bombs.

"standard" This is the it came from the factory. This is what it should be in 777's ROF.
  • 0

#100 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 06 December 2011 - 18:58

You don't get it… Camel, S.E.5a., Dolphin, Bristol and R.E.8 also came without racks from the factory.
  • 0

#101 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6357
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 06 December 2011 - 19:02

"standard" This is the it came from the factory. This is what it should be in 777's ROF.

The dev team consulted with me and I told them it was ok. Next time I'll tell them to check with you.
  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#102 MiG-77

MiG-77
  • Posts: 2651

Posted 06 December 2011 - 19:13

You don't get it… Camel, S.E.5a., Dolphin, Bristol and R.E.8 also came without racks from the factory.

Also, Cl.II didnt came with grenades from the factory, so it is not "standard" either :D
  • 0

#103 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 06 December 2011 - 19:14

The crew was also not part of the factory delivery, maybe they should fly without them as well :D
  • 0

#104 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 06 December 2011 - 20:42

You don't get it… Camel, S.E.5a., Dolphin, Bristol and R.E.8 also came without racks from the factory.

Yes they did, but they can produce reams of evidence thru documentation of bombing report and photos. Pilot accounts that they were pretty much standard equipment. If that is the case then show the evidence instead of making another uber plane that the centrals can fly. It's bad enough we have the Pfalz D.XII with engine it didn't have.
  • 0

#105 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 06 December 2011 - 20:47

Read Schlachtflieger!, there is at least one mentioning of a plane returning with an empty bomb rack, or "emptying" it, and several instances of bombs being dropped from Cl.IIs.
  • 0

#106 J.j.

J.j.
  • Posts: 1959

Posted 06 December 2011 - 22:26

What I was trying to tell is that, as MiG77 said, we should not have a miltary laod that exxcess 50kg of bombs, I guess grandes won't be available when the aircraft will come out.

By the way, can we expect it for january?
  • 0

#107 =FB=Chapay

=FB=Chapay
  • Posts: 637

Posted 06 December 2011 - 23:03

By the way, can we expect it for january?

I hope 29 january 2012 8-)
  • 0

#108 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 07 December 2011 - 00:42

Read Schlachtflieger!, there is at least one mentioning of a plane returning with an empty bomb rack, or "emptying" it, and several instances of bombs being dropped from Cl.IIs.

Is this from a writer or are they actually quoting someone.
  • 0

#109 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 07 December 2011 - 00:49

They are quoting pilots and observers serving with Schustas and Schlastas.


edit: actually, in the Schustas/Schlastas they were not called observes but gunners, their main focus was gunnery and not observation/photography or radio transmissions.
  • 0

#110 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 07 December 2011 - 02:02

So they could still be referring to the rack of the hand tossed bombs then?
  • 0

#111 redcoat22

redcoat22
  • Posts: 840

Posted 07 December 2011 - 04:26

The only hard point/rack were alongside of the fuselage near the observer.

Why is it out of 900 Halberstadts in World War one that we can't find one picture of bombs hanging underneath one of them? Why when you have a picture of A Halberstadt with a bomb rack (?)is it the only one in the picture? .

Pehaps the same reason that we only see the same 2 dozen pictures of this aircraft that was made 900 times.
  • 0

#112 SirFreddie

SirFreddie
  • Posts: 1398

Posted 07 December 2011 - 05:31

You don't get it… Camel, S.E.5a., Dolphin, Bristol and R.E.8 also came without racks from the factory.

Yes they did, but they can produce reams of evidence thru documentation of bombing report and photos. Pilot accounts that they were pretty much standard equipment. If that is the case then show the evidence instead of making another uber plane that the entente can fly. It's bad enough we have the Pfalz D.XII with engine it didn't have.

Avoiding the mistake of saying it's an 'Uber plane' for the 'Entente to fly!!!'… How many 'Entente' players fly the Biff with a bombload? this being the obvious analogue for the CL.II. :oops:
  • 0

#113 MiG-77

MiG-77
  • Posts: 2651

Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:26

So they could still be referring to the rack of the hand tossed bombs then?

No, because they mention bombs to be IE 12,5kg PuW bombs and they describe them as bombs, not grenades (12,5kg was "heavy" bomb for them and anecdotes are something like "dropping heavies to artillery positions/ammo dumps and throwing grenades to trenches"). Bomb rack for 12,5kg bombs were underside of Cl.II as seen in photos.

As I posted that quote before, it clearly mentions that every (in that attack) Cl.II had 2-3 12,5kg PuW bombs and addition to that grenades. My quess is that they did not take full load (4) of 12,5kg bombs, because they wanted to carry grenades aswell. -> Thats why I would say 50kg is max "bomb" load ( would include grenades aswell).
  • 0

#114 Armincles

Armincles
  • Posts: 514

Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:42

Seeing that the Entente have so many bombers and two seaters,the central side needs to have the Halberstadt with bombs to even up things and make it a bit more interessting,the fact that it had bomb racks in one picture is enough proof for me that it was capable of carring bombs!
As someone who also builds missions its difficult with the current available planesets in ROF to balance things out in a bombing scenario as Central only has the Gotha and the DFW versus HP400,2Bristols,R8,Breguet,Dolphin,Camel,SE5a and Spad that are all capable of carring Bombs.
:S!:
  • 0

#115 Hellbender

Hellbender
  • Posts: 3321
  • LocationMadrid, Spain (originally Brussels, Belgium)

Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:50

I'm wondering, is there a reason why mission designers don't simply lock weapon loadout on the servers if they don't want people to carry bombs?

Or does it mean that you need to lock fuel as well?
  • 0

J5_Hellbender


#116 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:51

Actually there are two pictures :D And as Mig says, those pilots and gunners specifically mention bombs being dropped, not grenades, and it can't be an error in translation either as Bombe and Granate are obvious enough.

I'm wondering, is there a reason why mission designers don't simply lock weapon loadout on the servers if they don't want people to carry bombs?

Or does it mean that you need to lock fuel as well?

Because the planes allowed to carry bombs then can't change their loadout. Now that we have the remote console we should be able to do "white listing", we just need somebody to write the Rise of Flight Server Commander :)
  • 0

#117 JG1_Pragr_J4

JG1_Pragr_J4
  • Posts: 57

Posted 07 December 2011 - 14:27

Why is it out of 900 Halberstadts in World War one that we can't find one picture of bombs hanging underneath one of them? Why when you have a picture of A Halberstadt with a bomb rack (?)is it the only one in the picture?

Don't put bombs on a plane if it didn't have them.

After a quick search, I've found just one picture (it is in osprey publication about Camel) that shows Camel with bombs. Out of some 5500 planes produced it's way more rare option than one picture of Cl.II with bomb racks ;)
  • 0

#118 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 07 December 2011 - 14:45

No, because they mention bombs to be IE 12,5kg PuW bombs and they describe them as bombs, not grenades (12,5kg was "heavy" bomb for them and anecdotes are something like "dropping heavies to artillery positions/ammo dumps and throwing grenades to trenches"). Bomb rack for 12,5kg bombs were underside of Cl.II as seen in photos.

As I posted that quote before, it clearly mentions that every (in that attack) Cl.II had 2-3 12,5kg PuW bombs and addition to that grenades. My quess is that they did not take full load (4) of 12,5kg bombs, because they wanted to carry grenades aswell. -> Thats why I would say 50kg is max "bomb" load ( would include grenades aswell).[/quote]

Make me wonder if there was a Question Mark after all that.

[quote="armincles"]Seeing that the Entente have so many bombers and two seaters,the central side needs to have the Halberstadt with bombs to even up things and make it a bit more interessting,the fact that it had bomb racks in one picture is enough proof for me that it was capable of carring bombs!
As someone who also builds missions its difficult with the current available planesets in ROF to balance things out in a bombing scenario as Central only has the Gotha and the DFW versus HP400,2Bristols,R8,Breguet,Dolphin,Camel,SE5a and Spad that are all capable of carring Bombs.
:S!:

You don't put bombs on planes just to level the playing field. Entente planes put bombs on their planes because of their developing a doctrine. The centrals didn't start doing that till
later in the war. The CL.II was designed as a bomber escort. It wasn't put in it's new role September of 1917. When it was they didn't even use the hand grenades that came later. On top of that PuK bombs had a to be dropped at 800m in order to acheive the spin on the bomb to arm the fuse. This is why they weren't used.

If you look at your picture with the question mark you notice the bombs around the observer seat bomb rack.

What I think would be better is to make a plane where, the observer is the one actually tossing the hand grenades sorta like the flare gun option.
  • 0

#119 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 07 December 2011 - 14:47

Why is it out of 900 Halberstadts in World War one that we can't find one picture of bombs hanging underneath one of them? Why when you have a picture of A Halberstadt with a bomb rack (?)is it the only one in the picture?

Don't put bombs on a plane if it didn't have them.

After a quick search, I've found just one picture (it is in osprey publication about Camel) that shows Camel with bombs. Out of some 5500 planes produced it's way more rare option than one picture of Cl.II with bomb racks ;)

I got a couple of videos you should watch you actually see about thirty more.

http://www.youtube.c.../28/dwrIf_5gEEM



Oh and in one of them you'll see a CL.II with no bombs.
  • 0

#120 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6357
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 07 December 2011 - 14:48

What I think would be better is to make a plane where, the observer is the one actually tossing the hand grenades sorta like the flare gun option.

How is that functionally different from dropping them from a bomb rack when the pilot pushes a joystick button?
  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users