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#41 luuklinde

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:09

Don't you just love rotary engines and and a very short fuselage?

+1
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#42 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:33

"the switch to fin and rudder had almost no effect on maneuvrability." :P
I think you missed the point Jorri, and I knew that last bit would be misinterpreted. Without the set fin/stabilizer an aircraft inherently will not track along the thrust vector. That's why they call it a "stabilizer".

The pilot had to constantly adjust the rudder in order to control the airplane, which had no tendency to point in the direction of the oncoming air.

Read the article again, the pilot has to make these continual rudder adjustments in order to keep the aircraft from skidding, in other words it is yaw unstable. This is something that SHOULD be modelled in the Dr1 and EIII FM, but majority of players would absolutely hate with a vengeance… This rudder-only characteristic would allow the Dr1 to 'flat spin' easily, just like Voss did, and then return to the path of original motion. It is trick flying at the very edge of the envelope.

Could the Dr1 outmaneuver/out turn the Camel, as the article was trying to get at with that statement? No, it couldn't judged by their simulation, and as born out by historical accounts, and as it is in RoF. Could the Camel do what the Dr1 could? No, it had a stabilizer!
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#43 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 14:23

That said, is the Dr1 FM overdone? i.e. should it be that easy??? I agree it should not handle like it is on rails, but IMHO it is closer to reality than further from it.

And no, I do not fly the Dr1, so no fanboi here. I much prefer entente buses, N17, SE5a, and Dolphin.

How can you judge the Dr.I if you don't even fly it?
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#44 Armincles

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 14:41

Yea, totally realistic, no FM revision needed whatsoever :lol:

I love that the thing is clearly capable of maneuvers that RC planes would struggle with, and yet Central flyers regularly defend the legitimacy of that stupid plane.

Agreed that it's fun as hell to fly.. but it belongs in Star Wars and not Rise of Flight.

Well look at what the camel can do!



The central Pilots think that is a joke too!

;)
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#45 Hellbender

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 14:54

:D

Oh, I've gotten a bunch of dislikes now!

Funny that people dislike a video because of the plane featured in it, not because of the actual video.



Or maybe they just dislike me.

:(



In any case, I'm over the Camel now.

Rotaries are so 1917. Feel free to dislike this:


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J5_Hellbender


#46 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 16:08

armincles, you're talking about the f-ed up damage model, and how it doesn't influence the flight model correctly. That's a separate issue, but guess what? The Dr.I and Pfalz D.IIIa have the same exact problem. And hell, I've shot down SE's and Camels in a Dr.I while missing half of my top wing. Do you think any plane should be able to still dogfight while missing major lift surfaces? Or how about that an Albatros D.Va can out-turn an SE5a while missing an aileron?

Your argument is not only irrelevant but also flawed, sorry. Many of the DM's in the game are messed up. Don't bother picking on just one as if you've found a legitimate, isolated gripe.

As for my main issues with the Dr.I, they are:
- It's too fast at sea level, and also doesn't lose enough performance with altitude (it actually closes the gap on its inline counterparts, unlike the Camel, which is insane).
- Its acceleration and energy retention are very questionable in my opinion.
- Immediately after stalling the wings, the plane enters this ridiculous, gentle "falling leaf" pattern. Cute, but I've never seen a full-scale fixed wing aircraft pull that off in real life.
- The plane can recover from any stall or spin almost instantly. There is no penalty for throwing it into the most sideways, uncoordinated, ass-backwards loop you can dream up – even at 100ft of altitude. Try that in a Camel, or any other aircraft that has its FM based in reality.

I don't know if you fly real airplanes or R/C ones (I fly both – just started flying for real 3 months ago), but I'll say again that ROF's Dr.I can do things that even over-powered R/C models would struggle with. I don't know how anyone can honestly defend it. If you just like having an Uber plane that should never lose a fair fight, then fine – just say that! But quit defending the legitimacy of a FM that isn't based in reality.
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#47 Armincles

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 11:58

Jay I meant by saying that ,that the Camel is also not like it should be,members of my Squad think that it needs to be remodelled too.
Sorry Bender if I got the wrong Impression, I am a Camel fan, its my favourite aircraft in ROF,Im not anti Camel!
As long as the "Best Aircraft" on both sides have some flaws in their FMs its OK with me.

Yes I did fly real aircraft,but never one with the same engine as the DR1 or Camel which gives the aircraft its twitches due to the gyroscopic effect.So as long as you have not flown one you cannot compare it to everyday aircraft, only Mr Carlsson could, as he is one that would know for sure as he has a DR1 with an original engine!
:S!:
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#48 Pimpin

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 13:07

You can bet if Mr Carlsson posted here some people would post telling him how wrong he is…;)
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#49 gavagai

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 14:58

Funny that people dislike a video because of the plane featured in it, not because of the actual video.
Rotaries are so 1917. Feel free to dislike this:

The inverted-observer-still-firing video? Done.
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#50 Bump

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 15:38

It seems like everytime I go up against a good camel pilot, I lose flying the DR1.
When I fly the Pup I can out fly and out turn the best DR1 pilots.

When I do fly the DR1 it takes a few hours just to remember how to fly it and about 30 seconds to remember how to fly the pup.

I know this topic is kindda about dr1 v camel or whatever and I'm not a forum troll or whore, but I don't see anyone talking crap about the pup and the crazy maneuvers it can perform.

By the way that video of the Ultralight doing the crazy maneuvers is just insane and stupid!!, I flew the damn things for 10 yrs. and would get nervous when a prairie dog farted(colorado pilot joke). It is so differnt flying the real then the sim and maybe thats y people can do things in a sim plane that you would never ever do in the real one.
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#51 Hellbender

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 16:41

Funny that people dislike a video because of the plane featured in it, not because of the actual video.
Rotaries are so 1917. Feel free to dislike this:

The inverted-observer-still-firing video? Done.

Haha, oh gavagai, you had us in tears when we ran into your Alby at 15,000ft on Syndicate. We knew you'd be there and your reaction was rather predictable, but hilarious nonetheless. Made my night.
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J5_Hellbender


#52 gavagai

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 18:36

Oh yeah, I love how you and your squad dumped the has-been Camel for the ack-wagon F2b. You are anti-competitive and, as your own friend has told you, you ruin multiplayer with your arcade antics.
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#53 Hellbender

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 19:46

Maybe worth mentioning we didn't actually attack you, since you specifically asked for it.

About 10,000ft lower, we were later on shot down by a very competent team of two Albatros D.IIIs.

In any case:

Image
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J5_Hellbender


#54 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 19:51

Did they have black fuselages? :)
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#55 Hellbender

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 19:53

It was on Syndicate, locked skins and no kill messages. I do believe it may have been neuro and t4trouble, indeed. :D
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J5_Hellbender


#56 gavagai

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 20:08

:roll:

Bender, you not only disrespect me, you disrespect your friend who quit multiplayer over the chuck-norris two-seaters, and that is truly telling.
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#57 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 20:10

Oh yeah, I love how you and your squad dumped the has-been Camel for the ack-wagon F2b. You are anti-competitive and, as your own friend has told you, you ruin multiplayer with your arcade antics.

Why not hop in a 2-seater and fight them from the rear gun yourself if it's so easy?

Personally, I am worthless in the rear gunner seat and have no idea how Darling and Vasco do it so effectively. The controls are the most counter-intuitive and, in my opinion, buggy and broken I've ever seen.
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#58 Hellbender

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 22:39

:roll:

Bender, you not only disrespect me, you disrespect your friend who quit multiplayer over the chuck-norris two-seaters, and that is truly telling.

You're right, I did disrespect you on The Syndicate. I should have pressed my advantage when I met you at 15,000ft, instead of complying with your request "not to play". My action may have been misguided and if I offended you, by all means I present my apologies.

Regarding my squadron mate who supposedly quit, he has thankfully returned and is now flying both scouts and fighters. I have taken this act of desperation as a warning and try to raise awareness about two-seaters however and whenever I can. Leaving them in the hangar is not how I see them getting fixed anytime soon.

Same goes for bombers doing attack runs mere feet off the ground and landing off-map (I'm not partaking in this myself). It seems to be happening more often now and unless people keep doing it, the issue will not become widespread enough to warrant a fix.
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J5_Hellbender


#59 gavagai

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 23:09

:roll:

Bender, you not only disrespect me, you disrespect your friend who quit multiplayer over the chuck-norris two-seaters, and that is truly telling.

You're right, I did disrespect you on The Syndicate. I should have pressed my advantage…

Advantage? I was above you! If you have an advantage over an enemy aircraft that is above you, then that is proof positive that your F2b is a Chuck Norris ride. The only difference from the way you and IRFC used to lean on the Camel crutch is that the F2b is even further away from what its historical counterpart could actually do.

If you are going to continue with your arcade air-quake approach to RoF, then leave things like the Vintage Missions to those who take the history a little more seriously.

unless people keep doing it, the issue will not become widespread enough to warrant a fix.

Classic logic. Just like long range sniping, right? That's bound to be fixed any day now. :lol:
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#60 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 00:37

Easy dude. You sound like Winger.

It's pretty ridiculous to flame some of the friendliest members of the community for becoming good at a part of the game you find flawed.
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#61 Hellbender

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 01:02

:roll:

Bender, you not only disrespect me, you disrespect your friend who quit multiplayer over the chuck-norris two-seaters, and that is truly telling.

You're right, I did disrespect you on The Syndicate. I should have pressed my advantage…

Advantage? I was above you! If you have an advantage over an enemy aircraft that is above you, then that is proof positive that your F2b is a Chuck Norris ride. The only difference from the way you and IRFC used to lean on the Camel crutch is that the F2b is even further away from what its historical counterpart could actually do.

If you are going to continue with your arcade air-quake approach to RoF, then leave things like the Vintage Missions to those who take the history a little more seriously.

unless people keep doing it, the issue will not become widespread enough to warrant a fix.

Classic logic. Just like long range sniping, right? That's bound to be fixed any day now. :lol:

Gavagai, I do respect you and I also respect your opinions, but your irrational hatred of two-seaters and stubborn romantic ideals of invincible lone wolf scout pilots are clouding your judgment. (the Palpatine reference doesn't seem far-fetched now)

How would you ever have an advantage alone in an Albatros D.III against a bloody Bristol, no matter the altitude? It's not like you were attempting to boom 'n zoom us, either. We had nearly reached your altitude as you started spewing out insults regarding "fucking ack platforms" and whatnot. What you hate most about all this, is that you cling to a false belief that altitude is the one and only thing that ought to keep you out of reach of the "unwashed masses" below and that theory falls apart the moment someone dares to climb up to you. You're literally and figuratively locked in an ivory tower.

What I recommend you to do, as a friend, is to start getting down in the dirt with the rest of us "Arcade Air-Quakers", join TeamSpeak and start flying in team. Soon enough, you'll get to participate in closed events where we indeed fly up to your rigorous historical expectations, without TeamSpeak, without stats, without "Arcade Air-Quake", with real kill confirmations and actual mission objectives for two-seaters. To expect this on public servers, even on the excellent Vintage Missions which The Syndicate runs, is not only impossible, but makes you come of as an utter pedant – which I know you are, in fact, NOT.

So instead of this, why don't you jump on TeamSpeak and take the time to get to know us personally? At the very worst it'll confirm your suspicions that we are all a bunch of exploiting cheaters. At best you'll end up with some more real life friends. I'm warning you, it's a pretty big responsibility over the holidays having to wish them all a Happy New Year.

And with that, to you too, from the bottom of my heart: a Happy New Year!
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J5_Hellbender


#62 hoots2

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:22

Not wishing to distract from benders very well worded post (lovely use of words) but whenever I hear "bottom of my heart" it always sounds like "fart of my bottom" but that may well just be me…
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#63 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:34

just some more clown flyin:



and the famous world aerobatics championship final in paris + a frenchman in a Bücker (video title is wrong, no luftwaffe at all…)


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#64 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 09:10

And hell, I've shot down SE's and Camels in a Dr.I while missing half of my top wing. Do you think any plane should be able to still dogfight while missing major lift surfaces?

sorry, but I had to:
from the movie L'As des As
http://video.mail.ru.../3448/3782.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://video.mail.ru.../3448/3782.html
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#65 Dr.Zebra

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 09:14

amazed me, because at 0:54 you can actually see what looks like streamers on the trailing edge of the wing…. maybe RoF isn´t that much of there.

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#66 =FB=VikS

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 19:50

amazed me, because at 0:54 you can actually see what looks like streamers on the trailing edge of the wing…. maybe RoF isn´t that much of there.

check 1:25 - on the right wing of DFW (C.V?) seems like its a camera installation on the right-top wing?!
Always thought that that video scene with dogfight (3:08) is a "cinema fake" - but it seems it maybe was filmed on a real conditions (yet when DFW taking off - it had dark fuselage with skull, but filmed dogfight plane - had light sides - seems like its filmed on another airplane), almost 90 degree dive bank - and seems like gunner are still able to track enemy airplane :)
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#67 1PL-Lucas-1Esk

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 20:14

Also there is an altimeter (?) mounted between the fuselage struts over the windscreen. It was very popular method of their installation in German 2-seaters.
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#68 SYN_Bandy

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 23:53

…Always thought that that video scene with dogfight (3:08) is a "cinema fake" - but it seems it maybe was filmed on a real conditions … almost 90 degree dive bank - and seems like gunner are still able to track enemy airplane :)

Well, he did maintain control of the machine gun, that is, he was not plastered to the side of the fuselage or crumpled on the floor from G's, but who says he was tracking accurately? :) A gunner in a two-seater doing evasive maneuvers would have very little chance of hitting a pursuing fighter also doing evasive maneuvers. Spray and pray…

Nifty piece of footage, but obviously pieced together from different aircraft. Still interesting stuff!
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