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1.021b - hotfix is ready!


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#81 Jason_Williams

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 18:33

Glad it's been fixed, though.

Not for Nvidia users like J300_Paulus and myself it hasn't.

Nvidia performance is just back to 1.020 levels. I don't recall a bunch of complaints then. Looks like some new users who never had 1.020 or before are complaining.

What those who like to crap on us don't understand is that we cannot separate all of the graphics code for each card maker. The problem lies in the common engine code and Nvidia showed us how to manage a boost in rendering. ATI just sends us to a help desk run by some pimply faced kid in Canada who thinks we bought a card at Best Buy or something. When I ask to speak to an engineer he asks me to send a DXDIAG file.

I'm sorry if you think we crapped on Nvidia users, but at least your SLI functions properly. THE ONLY SIM THAT DOES BTW! YOU'RE WELCOME.

Jason
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#82 hq_Reflected

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 18:51

ATI just sends us to a help desk run by some pimply faced kid in Canada who thinks we bought a card at Best Buy or something. When I ask to speak to an engineer he asks me to send a DXDIAG file.

LOL! :lol:

That's sad, shame on ATI :?
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#83 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 18:53

thx Jason for sharing such a info with the community …

With your effort you managed to give a FPS boost to estimated 60% of the users maybe more but the other 40% or less I suppose had stutters which prevented them from enyoing RoF. Thats really a pain in the …

I still hope it will be possible to contact the AMD engineers at last and implement the FPS booster for all card users.
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#84 J300_Paulus

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 19:36

Glad it's been fixed, though.

Not for Nvidia users like J300_Paulus and myself it hasn't.

I haven`t nVidia card. I have HD5870 and this card is perfect to me. In the beginning of ROF I had HD4870 1GB and it was perfect too. I`ve never seen stuttering in this game, but now I can see decrease of performance. I hope you will stop blaming AMD. It`s not fair I think.
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#85 89

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 19:51

Glad it's been fixed, though.

Not for Nvidia users like J300_Paulus and myself it hasn't.

Nvidia performance is just back to 1.020 levels. I don't recall a bunch of complaints then. Looks like some new users who never had 1.020 or before are complaining.

What those who like to crap on us don't understand is that we cannot separate all of the graphics code for each card maker. The problem lies in the common engine code and Nvidia showed us how to manage a boost in rendering. ATI just sends us to a help desk run by some pimply faced kid in Canada who thinks we bought a card at Best Buy or something. When I ask to speak to an engineer he asks me to send a DXDIAG file.

I'm sorry if you think we crapped on Nvidia users, but at least your SLI functions properly. THE ONLY SIM THAT DOES BTW! YOU'RE WELCOME.

Jason

Dear Jason,

I LOVE Rise of Flight and would never "crap" on it.

I started playing on 1.019 version, played a lot of 1.020. I have never seen FPS near the ground to be as low as now (mid 20s), they used to be low-mid 30s before 1.021 and mid-high 30s on 1.021 - all on WinXP(my PC is in my sig). I remember this very distinctly because I was testing with Win7 and Rofboost utility and compared fps on XP vs 7. Even Win7 with the tweek had low 30s back then.

I do not have SLI and neither does J300_Paulus (educated guess). I feel bad because I know that my hardware IS capable of better, but it is pegged down. I would prefer to see the engine making use of nvidia boost in rendering, while ATI to be pegged back to whatever level it is comfortable with.

Making fast runners wear lead shoes is a not a good way to make it fair to all runners ;)
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#86 Jason_Williams

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 20:09

Glad it's been fixed, though.

Not for Nvidia users like J300_Paulus and myself it hasn't.

Nvidia performance is just back to 1.020 levels. I don't recall a bunch of complaints then. Looks like some new users who never had 1.020 or before are complaining.

What those who like to crap on us don't understand is that we cannot separate all of the graphics code for each card maker. The problem lies in the common engine code and Nvidia showed us how to manage a boost in rendering. ATI just sends us to a help desk run by some pimply faced kid in Canada who thinks we bought a card at Best Buy or something. When I ask to speak to an engineer he asks me to send a DXDIAG file.

I'm sorry if you think we crapped on Nvidia users, but at least your SLI functions properly. THE ONLY SIM THAT DOES BTW! YOU'RE WELCOME.

Jason

Dear Jason,

I LOVE Rise of Flight and would never "crap" on it.

I started playing on 1.019 version, played a lot of 1.020. I have never seen FPS near the ground to be as low as now (mid 20s), they used to be low-mid 30s before 1.021 and mid-high 30s on 1.021 - all on WinXP(my PC is in my sig). I remember this very distinctly because I was testing with Win7 and Rofboost utility and compared fps on XP vs 7. Even Win7 with the tweek had low 30s back then.

I do not have SLI and neither does J300_Paulus (educated guess). I feel bad because I know that my hardware IS capable of better, but it is pegged down. I would prefer to see the engine making use of nvidia boost in rendering, while ATI to be pegged back to whatever level it is comfortable with.

Making fast runners wear lead shoes is a not a good way to make it fair to all runners ;)


We cannot do what you want us to do. Even before 1.20 we had stuttering problems on all cards to some degree or another, especially with SLI and Crossfire. Our tests in Beta show performance to be within the norm for 1.020 and before for all cards. Again, it's imposssible to get everyone's system running exactly the same. The combinations of hardware and settings is infinite.

Maybe if ATI can help us solve the issue that causes stutter when we boost FPS we can make everyone happy, but right now we cannot. All cards share a fundamental bit of graphics code that involves DirectX. Each card maker reads that code and API in their own way. We know how to make it smooth with nvidia after the boost, but ATI falls apart. All we can do is access their ATI drivers, but not the hardware. With nvidia we can access both to solve problems. Unless they change something in how their drivers reads our code as they have done with their latest set. Unfortunately that caused the wavy ground problem with Parrallax. Even nvidia engineers don't know what this is happening, but they promised to try and solve.

I'm jusy not going to be able to tell you anything else other than this. The game graphics are stable accross all platforms now for the first time in a long time and even if some feel FPS is lower overall comared to 1.021 or some other version it's going to have to stay that way for a while. We have other fish to fry at the moment.

Jason
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#87 SYN_Mike77

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 20:14

89: That is not possible. Either they optimize the game for nvidea leaving many (most?) of those with ATI having unplayable games, or they set everyones performance back to 1.020. Sure the performance boost was nice but the game was playable at 1.020 level. Given that choice I think the wise business move was to make the game playable to the most people. Then start a push here to get people to buy nvidea for thier next card.
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#88 -Ginge-

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 20:18

That one in your hand looks like a good fish to start frying.

Thanks Jason, for the sensible approach. I know how hard it is to get things working for everyone at the same time. You are doing good.

S!
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#89 Fishbreath

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 21:00

Making fast runners wear lead shoes is a not a good way to make it fair to all runners ;)

Chopping off the legs of the runners who bought Asics instead of New Balance is not a good way to run things either. :)
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#90 IM.LOFT

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 21:45

Русскоязычной темы подобной не нашёл, пишу здесь. После обновления фризы пропали, но в карьере появились вылеты, картинка замерает как скриншот звук при этом идёт, потом вылет и окошко с надписью ошибка програмы rof.exe
возможно это не связано с обновлением но раньше ничего подобного не было. Больше пяти минут не получается находится в карьере.

Попробуйте понизить настройки графики и напишите изменилась ли ситуация.
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#91 JamesMcCudden

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 22:02

Sterling job Jason and team,this is superb work,the SE5a handles like a dream now,very pleased with the results guys,thank you so much.
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#92 hq_Jorri

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 22:03

timwheatley.org/www/2011/08/29/the-rf2-side-of-the-fence

2b. Don’t roll-back on a bad release. You’ll get killed for that. For some reason people like it better when they have to use something which is broken rather than go back to an older version. They also seem to be a lot more grateful when you fix it.

I don't think I agree, but in practice it seems to work out :(
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#93 Josh_Echo

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 00:27

Sounds like a reasonable compromise. I have an Nvidia card, but I don't expect the sim to cater to Nvidia users at the expense of ATI users. It isn't the latter's fault that ATI's customer support bites.
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#94 catchov

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 00:37

I've not noticed any performance drop using nvidia. However, it's fair to say I'm not a benchmarking nazi monitoring every fps fluctuation. I just play it. And it's smooth to the eye and still glorious to look at. :D

It's a shame this other card mob hasn't yet come to the party though. Must be driving Jason mad. :evil:
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#95 Waldo4

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:04

Dear Victor, The new "beta career" was great I really felt thrilled to play ROF ICE, but the updates 2 and 3 went back to the same agrevating anger. I experienced before. So I unistalled ROF ICE before i took a hammer to my computer! I'm going to do a clean install when I calm down. I sense that the people on your server has more control over my career missions than I do. Jeez the graphics are great how about making the player have some fun. Dumb it down! I am addicted to this game. Please give me a response. Thank you. WALDO.
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#96 Baal2

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 07:27

Glad it's been fixed, though.

Not for Nvidia users like J300_Paulus and myself it hasn't.

Nvidia performance is just back to 1.020 levels. I don't recall a bunch of complaints then. Looks like some new users who never had 1.020 or before are complaining.

What those who like to crap on us don't understand is that we cannot separate all of the graphics code for each card maker. The problem lies in the common engine code and Nvidia showed us how to manage a boost in rendering. ATI just sends us to a help desk run by some pimply faced kid in Canada who thinks we bought a card at Best Buy or something. When I ask to speak to an engineer he asks me to send a DXDIAG file.


Jason


I hope that ATI boys will shake their ass so we can re-revert to 1.021 graphic optimisation.The "boost in rendering on nvidia" allowed my old little 8800gt to run ROF nearly all max out!!!! That was very incredilbe from a 512mb GC:D
I can still run ROF smoothly with lower settings, that is ok.
Again, great job guys (especially to the guy who designed SpadVII engines sound :lol: )
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#97 MarcoRossolini

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:25

Must be driving Jason mad. :evil:

Not the only one whos being driven mad, though I'm not even supposed to be catered for at all it seems, pretty much everything on the recommended system reqs are higher then my machine, pretty lucky I think to get even a playable game now that I think about it.
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#98 89

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 12:05

Glad it's been fixed, though.

Not for Nvidia users like J300_Paulus and myself it hasn't.

Nvidia performance is just back to 1.020 levels. I don't recall a bunch of complaints then. Looks like some new users who never had 1.020 or before are complaining.

What those who like to crap on us don't understand is that we cannot separate all of the graphics code for each card maker. The problem lies in the common engine code and Nvidia showed us how to manage a boost in rendering. ATI just sends us to a help desk run by some pimply faced kid in Canada who thinks we bought a card at Best Buy or something. When I ask to speak to an engineer he asks me to send a DXDIAG file.

I'm sorry if you think we crapped on Nvidia users, but at least your SLI functions properly. THE ONLY SIM THAT DOES BTW! YOU'RE WELCOME.

Jason

Dear Jason,

I LOVE Rise of Flight and would never "crap" on it.

I started playing on 1.019 version, played a lot of 1.020. I have never seen FPS near the ground to be as low as now (mid 20s), they used to be low-mid 30s before 1.021 and mid-high 30s on 1.021 - all on WinXP(my PC is in my sig). I remember this very distinctly because I was testing with Win7 and Rofboost utility and compared fps on XP vs 7. Even Win7 with the tweek had low 30s back then.

I do not have SLI and neither does J300_Paulus (educated guess). I feel bad because I know that my hardware IS capable of better, but it is pegged down. I would prefer to see the engine making use of nvidia boost in rendering, while ATI to be pegged back to whatever level it is comfortable with.

Making fast runners wear lead shoes is a not a good way to make it fair to all runners ;)


We cannot do what you want us to do. Even before 1.20 we had stuttering problems on all cards to some degree or another, especially with SLI and Crossfire. Our tests in Beta show performance to be within the norm for 1.020 and before for all cards. Again, it's imposssible to get everyone's system running exactly the same. The combinations of hardware and settings is infinite.

Maybe if ATI can help us solve the issue that causes stutter when we boost FPS we can make everyone happy, but right now we cannot. All cards share a fundamental bit of graphics code that involves DirectX. Each card maker reads that code and API in their own way. We know how to make it smooth with nvidia after the boost, but ATI falls apart. All we can do is access their ATI drivers, but not the hardware. With nvidia we can access both to solve problems. Unless they change something in how their drivers reads our code as they have done with their latest set. Unfortunately that caused the wavy ground problem with Parrallax. Even nvidia engineers don't know what this is happening, but they promised to try and solve.

I'm jusy not going to be able to tell you anything else other than this. The game graphics are stable accross all platforms now for the first time in a long time and even if some feel FPS is lower overall comared to 1.021 or some other version it's going to have to stay that way for a while. We have other fish to fry at the moment.

Jason

Thank you for an honest and detailed answer.

Now that ATI/AMD's silence is impacting not just ATI users in RoF, could you maybe post your request to them so that more people could try reaching the relevant person at AMD and make him establish links with 777?

Does he occupy a particular position at ATI? What questions he must be able to answer/resolve? Basically, how would I know if the guy I was to find would be the one you need?

Maybe you could post a sticky thread with relevant details and, knowing enthusiasm of RoF community, it will produce results that will be beneficial to all of us.

Please allow me/us to help!
Best wishes
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#99 Mercenarius

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 13:38

Because this type of service to users i buyed your game some days ago. First you give us the posibility to try it without restriction even in online mode, and later show us the compromise you have with all users-customers. Its very much preciated that kind of attitude. And yes, im an amd-ati user. Thanks and congratulations! (Sorry poor english)
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#100 spitfirem

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 15:54

I've got some big problems because of the 1.021b patch. The game plays very smooth but after some time the screen just freezes. The game goes on and I can hear how I get shot down or crash, I still control the plane. This never happend before. I've played 6 missions in the 1.021b version and the game screen froze 3 times! I had to ctrl-alt-del out of it.

my specs:
intel core 2Duo CPU 2.26GHz 2.27GHz
Windows Vista 32bit
4GB RAM.
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650.

I know this is below minimum specs but ROF has been playing verry well lately, untill this hotfix patch.
Might it be because of the directX update? I haven't heard of others that had this problem.
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#101 Josh_Echo

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 16:30

Maybe you could post a sticky thread with relevant details and, knowing enthusiasm of RoF community, it will produce results that will be beneficial to all of us.

Now there's an idea. Bombard ATI with a mass demand until they finally cough up the fix. : D
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#102 Josh_Echo

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 17:31

OMG THEY FIXED THE BLACKSCREEN EXTERNAL PADLOCK BUG! Now I can watch tracks again the way I like to watch 'em.

I love you I love you I love you xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo
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#103 89

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 20:35

Maybe you could post a sticky thread with relevant details and, knowing enthusiasm of RoF community, it will produce results that will be beneficial to all of us.

Now there's an idea. Bombard ATI with a mass demand until they finally cough up the fix. : D

Bombard them or use more of a finesse approach, but firstly we need 777 to tell us (at least approximately):
1.Who at ATI 777 need
2. What is it that ATI need to do.

Please Jason, let us help us :)
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#104 Wedgo

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 21:13

Thank you for your dedication and continued efforts. Truly appreciate it!
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#105 BigDuke66

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 21:55

2. Fokker D.VII/D.VIIF ailerons deflection is now symmetric (+23/-23)

What does that mean?
Just graphic correction or actual change in FM?
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#106 arjisme

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 22:44

Actual change.
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#107 Jason_Williams

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 23:00

Maybe you could post a sticky thread with relevant details and, knowing enthusiasm of RoF community, it will produce results that will be beneficial to all of us.

Now there's an idea. Bombard ATI with a mass demand until they finally cough up the fix. : D

Bombard them or use more of a finesse approach, but firstly we need 777 to tell us (at least approximately):
1.Who at ATI 777 need
2. What is it that ATI need to do.

Please Jason, let us help us :)

It's very simple. We need to speak to a senior (not some kid at a help desk) engineer so we can explain the problem and have an email exchange, not a help desk message center discussion.

Good luck. They are asleep at the switch.

Jason
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#108 thandy164

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 23:32

HOW DO I DOWNLOAD IT ?
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#109 DidNotFinish

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:00

HOW DO I DOWNLOAD IT ?

Image
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#110 arjisme

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:03

From the RoF Launcher, click on the Update button. You should see an update listed as available. Click on that to select it and then hit the button to apply it (don't recall what it is labelled – maybe "OK" or "Apply" or "Update"). Note that during the update it will also prompt you to apply a DirectX update. Let it do that too.
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#111 89

89
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Posted 23 September 2011 - 03:05

Maybe you could post a sticky thread with relevant details and, knowing enthusiasm of RoF community, it will produce results that will be beneficial to all of us.

Now there's an idea. Bombard ATI with a mass demand until they finally cough up the fix. : D

Bombard them or use more of a finesse approach, but firstly we need 777 to tell us (at least approximately):
1.Who at ATI 777 need
2. What is it that ATI need to do.

Please Jason, let us help us :)

It's very simple. We need to speak to a senior (not some kid at a help desk) engineer so we can explain the problem and have an email exchange, not a help desk message center discussion.

Good luck. They are asleep at the switch.

Jason

Does Andrew Dodd sound like the right person? He is in charge of AMD Catalyst soft - exactly what we need, no?

Quote him:

"I am the owner of the AMD Catalyst software suite (which means I manage/coordinate AMD Catalyst and hotfix releases and define the long term AMD Catalyst strategy). My day to day work involves defining software requirements for new features/projects, working closely with a number of software development teams"

"Andrew: The AMD Catalyst team does not interact directly with 3rd party developers - we've got an amazing ISV team who acts as our liaison with developers. They work very closely with companies from very early on in the development cycle to ensure everything works smoothly before the title is released. If an issue is found that needs a Catalyst update to resolve it, then of course I work closely with the team to get out a fix as soon as possible for our customers (a hotfix release is often the quickest solution; with the official Catalyst release getting the fix a little later)."

http://www.hardwareh...?interviewid=28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.hardwareh...n.com/interview … rviewid=28

If you wont get through his spam filter/secretary, we will tweet him until he gives in :)

EDIT: Terry Makedon sounds like the right guy too - AMD's Manager of Software Product Management, responsible for the roadmap and delivery of Catalyst drivers (and all other software for Radeon products).
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#112 Jason_Williams

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 03:20

"I am the owner of the AMD Catalyst software suite (which means I manage/coordinate AMD Catalyst and hotfix releases and define the long term AMD Catalyst strategy). My day to day work involves defining software requirements for new features/projects, working closely with a number of software development teams"

"Andrew: The AMD Catalyst team does not interact directly with 3rd party developers - we've got an amazing ISV team who acts as our liaison with developers. They work very closely with companies from very early on in the development cycle to ensure everything works smoothly before the title is released. If an issue is found that needs a Catalyst update to resolve it, then of course I work closely with the team to get out a fix as soon as possible for our customers (a hotfix release is often the quickest solution; with the official Catalyst release getting the fix a little later)."

Who the hell is the ISV team and why is it such a damn mystery how to contact them? Seriously, that is the most ridiculous quote I have seen from an ATI manager.

But yes, if someone can get this person's attention so he can give me a real (not a dumb help desk) contact at ATI to solve code and driver issues then yes spam the shit out of him. Pardon my French. Because I give up and it should not be a mystery or a game for a legitimate develope like us to get help from the ATI team.

Jason
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#113 89

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 03:48

Cool, we'll see what we can do:)
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#114 HotTom

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 03:50

Don't know if this will help but it's a place to start:

http://developer.amd...es/default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://developer.amd...es/default.aspx

Jason, you keep calling it ATI but it hasn't been ATI for five years. AMD bought ATI and put it under the AMD brand name in 2006. The brand name ATI no longer exists.

Might make searching easier if you look for AMD contacts.

Just a thought…
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#115 Jason_Williams

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 05:08

Don't know if this will help but it's a place to start:

http://developer.amd...es/default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://developer.amd...es/default.aspx

Jason, you keep calling it ATI but it hasn't been ATI for five years. AMD bought ATI and put it under the AMD brand name in 2006. The brand name ATI no longer exists.

Might make searching easier if you look for AMD contacts.

Just a thought…

Do you really think I don't know that? Jesus. Their stupid AMD Developer site is a joke with NO clear or even unlcear path to talk to someone of real consequence who can help our team understand their hardware or software better.

Jason
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#116 catchov

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 06:09

Heck ! Now I'm cranky too. :evil: I hope this AMD stupidity gets sorted …. and soon ! Also hope 89 gets somewhere !

AMD is an anagram of MAD and DAM by the way ! :evil:

Tossers ! :evil:

Sorry I should contain myself :oops:
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#117 89

89
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Posted 23 September 2011 - 14:21

Ok, I started the ball rolling. Tweeted to both of them (no reply yet).

I also started a new thread devoted to this issue RoF needs community's help - concerns EVERYBODY!

Lets team up and get this sorted guys!
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#118 nort72

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 14:30

Русскоязычной темы подобной не нашёл, пишу здесь. После обновления фризы пропали, но в карьере появились вылеты, картинка замерает как скриншот звук при этом идёт, потом вылет и окошко с надписью ошибка програмы rof.exe
возможно это не связано с обновлением но раньше ничего подобного не было. Больше пяти минут не получается находится в карьере.

Попробуйте понизить настройки графики и напишите изменилась ли ситуация.
Попробовал, без изменений. Сначала длнный фриз секунд на 10, 15, потом вылет и окошечко прекращена работа программы rof.exe Пока что это только в карьере.
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#119 SKC

SKC
  • Posts: 17

Posted 23 September 2011 - 18:30

You mention this is a "small update" but my Torrent program says it's >3gb!
In my part of the world where I am limited to 1gb/month this is a huge downlaod!
Is this an error or is there a smaller more downloadable file?
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#120 hq_Jorri

hq_Jorri
  • Posts: 14143

Posted 23 September 2011 - 18:38

You mention this is a "small update" but my Torrent program says it's >3gb!
In my part of the world where I am limited to 1gb/month this is a huge downlaod!
Is this an error or is there a smaller more downloadable file?

You should only download the torrent when you want to do a complete re-install of the game.

Many people seem to make this mistake, perhaps it's time they presented it in a different way.

If you want to update, open your ROF launcher and click the update button there. The update should be 7mb in size.
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