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Annoying low flying bombers


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#1 hq_Jorri

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 17:44

Here's how to deal with them:


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#2 Panthercules

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 17:47

Well played :)
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#3 adanhael

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 17:59

Damn i always wanted to do that but never actualy managed it… Well done Jorri!
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#4 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 18:25

:o

Awesome.
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#5 HotTom

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 18:38

WTG! ;)
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#6 J2_Adam

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 19:06

Wouldn't a better trick be to not kill yourself? It that possible?
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#7 hq_Jorri

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 19:19

Wouldn't a better trick be to not kill yourself? It that possible?

Sure it is! Challenge accepted :D I hope I won't get the opportunity, though!
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#8 J2_Adam

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 19:21

Good luck Jorri.
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#9 Capn_Binky

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 20:00

Hilarious!
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#10 MarcoRossolini

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 05:56

Perhaps bombs with a longer time fuse might help… (and dropping them further ahead of the EA
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#11 R_Suppards

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 06:32

Ooops! :(
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#12 Armincles

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 12:02

Why do Low-Level Bombers annoy you? Is it because you are waiting at 3000m to intercept them ,and they slip through under you?
Obviously the Bomber that is in your clip got through and got some of your targets and was already on his way home when you intercepted him.You died and he did not, he just crashed with gunner still shooting.That is one of the advantages of low level bombing,that you dont always die when shot down at that height.
I vary my high and low level attacks to keep the advantage of surprise.Finding yout target and handling the bomber lowlevel in tight turns is not easy.When there is no resistance at altitude it is actually much easier to bomb with the bombsight,once you know how to adjust it,and nothing much happens,its kind of boring compared to lowlevel sneak in bombing!

Image
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#13 242Sqn_Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 12:25

Why do Low-Level Bombers annoy you? Is it because you are waiting at 3000m to intercept them ,and they slip through under you?
Obviously the Bomber that is in your clip got through and got some of your targets and was already on his way home when you intercepted him.You died and he did not, he just crashed with gunner still shooting.That is one of the advantages of low level bombing,that you dont always die when shot down at that height.
I vary my high and low level attacks to keep the advantage of surprise.Finding yout target and handling the bomber lowlevel in tight turns is not easy.When there is no resistance at altitude it is actually much easier to bomb with the bombsight,once you know how to adjust it,and nothing much happens,its kind of boring compared to lowlevel sneak in bombing!

Image

Besides don't make drag out the AWM clips again. There were numerous bombers at low altitude. But….. I'm pretty sure it never happened in a HP. Then again I gould be wrong.
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#14 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 12:41

Because it's no fun fighting against them. They just drag the fights down into the dirt with their suicide attacks. It's almost impossible to stop them before they destroy your airfield unless you hunt for them with dedication. They require no teamwork at all to do their mission, and no teamwork or tactics at all to fight. Either they are overpowered with their big bombs that always hit (because it doesn't take any skill when you don't need to use a bombsight), unless you make the targets harder to destroy, which means nerfing the two-seaters. It's the one thing in multiplayer that is furtherst away from reality that we have at the moment. It's impossible to counter them with good mission design, since they fly too low for the machineguns to target them properly and if you set the AAA to higher skills, the real victims will be those that fly high up and are easier for AAA to hit. Even airstarts don't help, since they just dive down from 3000 meters - no problem. They're just too lazy to figure out the bombsight, it seems.

You just can't stop the smug bastards in anyway from doing their dirty job, short of banning the bombers completely from the planeset.

And that's a shame, because there are some very respectable bomber pilots out there who like to reach and destroy their objective with formations of bombers and escorts, dropping their load from altitude and using good skills and teamplay to win.

And we don't want to take their game away from them….so we just put up with the low level kids.

So yeah, I don't mind that I died. I'll suicide attack everyone I see of them, as long as it stops them from doing their thing and enjoying themselves.

I guess my low level bombers are someone elses fuel locks, come to think of it.
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#15 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 13:20

Jorri, you could make those bombers a lot more difficult to fly by locking the fuel at 100%…
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#16 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 13:40

Oh shut up.
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#17 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 13:43

I bet you considered it. :P
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#18 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 13:46

Nope. And it doesn't make sense either. Especially for the Gotha, which is actually carrying more than its maximum weight with a full fuel and full bomb load.
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#19 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 13:51

It's not easy to fly at that weight. It's even tougher to fly low (stall and you are toast) and make evasive maneuvers.
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#20 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:00

They're not making evasive manoeuvres. They're just flying a straight lines to the target - sometimes making slight turns to follow the valleys in the landscape. Dropping bombs behind them to catch any planes that might be following them in the blast.

And the Gotha is impossible to fly at that weight. Literally and technically.
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#21 Rexmundi

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:16

Dammit, for once I agree with Jorri.
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#22 Baal2

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 14:56

Agree, have been several time spoiled after a long climb and approach to find most of the targets decimated by a low flying bomber :zzz:
But, this is dogfight, not coop
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#23 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 15:02

I wouldn't mind having a more effective way in game to stop or discourage low-flying enemies specifically.

Currently, the AAA just punishes the moderately high flyers more than the low flyers. And the machineguns take too long to aim in order to effectively hit a passing aircraft at treetop level: the only time they do a lot of damage is when enemies fly at a few hundred meters altitude, and stay in the same general location.

For example, it would be nice to see the machinegunners able to take aim quicker.
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#24 MattM

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 15:59

Only give points to the bomber pilot and his team if he sucessfully landed on his sides of the lines.

Problem solved.

The reason why people fly low is because they don't care if they get shot down, AFTER they bombed the target. Why should they. Like it's been said before, there's even a smaller chance that they die. So if they don't crash into enemy territory, they will not even count as killed and will get all those points (and yes, bomber pilots do care for that) from destroying the objectives. Rediculous.

Just give them four times as many points if they managed to land after a sucessful bombing run. Same is true for recon pilots or artillery spotting etc. Don't award the action itself, award the action after getting home alive.

Way more statisfying for the guy who would follow that objective anyhow.
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#25 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 16:12

Just give them four times as many points if they managed to land after a sucessful bombing run. Same is true for recon pilots or artillery spotting etc. Don't award the action itself, award the action after getting home alive.

Same should be true for everyone. I'll bet that would change a lot of tactics.
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#26 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 16:29

Good point, Matt.

Wouldn't mind having the same for fighters, but that's a different discussion.
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#27 O_Taipan

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 17:15

IL-2 was like that wasn't it? Land to get the points etc.. I only played it once or twice online but I think so. It seems like a smarter system than what we have in ROF.
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#28 MattM

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 17:37

Just give them four times as many points if they managed to land after a sucessful bombing run. Same is true for recon pilots or artillery spotting etc. Don't award the action itself, award the action after getting home alive.

Same should be true for everyone. I'll bet that would change a lot of tactics.
Could probably cause problems though.

Pilot X thinks:
*Yay i just shot one down, let's dive down to land and get my kill counted!*
*Oh noes, enemy plane is on my tail, i better flare to signal him that i want to safe my kill!*
Pilot Y shot down Pilot X
Pilot X has been killed
Pilot X wrote: You *$§44!! I tried to land and signal that by using flare! Why did you do that? That's nonsense! Show some manners!! It's chivalry and all that!

OK, that's a bit of an exaggeration perhaps. But i wouldn't be surprised if we would see something like this. And i don't think fighter vs. fighter is really that broken that it needs a fix like that.

I wouldn't mind some sort of reward, when a pilot landed after getting some kills. But if kills would only get counted if the pilot landed sucessfully, it could lead to problems like this.


Low flying bombers are a different matter, those need to be fixed (not by getting them shot down by flak, which is hard enough to control, because AAA doesn't follow a set pattern in ROF and they can't hit a very low flying bomber that well either).


(don't want to mention the fuel load thing now, but why should i take a lot of fuel, if it's safer to land after every single kill anyway, even more reason to take less fuel)
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#29 arjisme

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 17:45

Because it's no fun fighting against them. They just drag the fights down into the dirt with their suicide attacks. It's almost impossible to stop them before they destroy your airfield unless you hunt for them with dedication. They require no teamwork at all to do their mission, and no teamwork or tactics at all to fight. Either they are overpowered with their big bombs that always hit (because it doesn't take any skill when you don't need to use a bombsight), unless you make the targets harder to destroy, which means nerfing the two-seaters. It's the one thing in multiplayer that is furtherst away from reality that we have at the moment.
Isn't having Gothas and HPs in daylight flying over trenches to bomb nearby targets pretty far from reality to begin with?
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#30 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 17:56

I don't quite understand the "fire a flare" = "get out of jail for free" concept. Was that common in WW1?

It probably would not change the fuel problem, but it would do a lot to curb the unrealistic aggression.
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#31 MattM

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 18:09

Isn't having Gothas and HPs in daylight flying over trenches to bomb nearby targets pretty far from reality to begin with?
Gothas flew at daylight aswell. Just imagine every enemy object on the map is called "London" and it's alright. :D

I don't quite understand the "fire a flare" = "get out of jail for free" concept. Was that common in WW1?
No. Too many bad WW1 movies would be my guess.

Like i said, i was exaggerating. However, i would rather avoid this problem.

Also just imagine you fly with 3 random people in formation. You just've been in a struggle with an enemy formation. One of your wingman shot one down, off he goes your nice wingman, dives straight to your side of the line to land asap and get that kill confirmed instead of staying with you and helping you fight against the remaining enemy planes and risk getting shotdown himself.

Of course with squadron buddies or whatever, this would be less of a problem, but when you fly with those guys, fighter vs. fighter combat is really trouble-free anyhow.
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#32 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 18:21

Also just imagine you fly with 3 random people in formation.

Those formations fall apart now. If anything I think "no landing/no points" will increase the chances that people work together. A fleeing wingman is more vulnerable than aircraft supporting each other.
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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

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#33 BraveSirRobin

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 18:56

By the way, I'm not sure how "no landing/no points" is going to stop low level bombing. People are using that tactic because they feel it gives them the best chance of getting to a target. I assume that means they feel it also gives them the best chance of getting back from the target. How is "no landing/no points" going to change that?

Having said that, the bottom line is that "no landing/no points" is more realistic, whether we are talking about bombers or scouts. The resulting tactics will be whatever people feel gives them the best chance of succeeding. I'd prefer to see tactics that are the result of realistic conditions than messing with conditions to get the tactics you want to see.
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The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#34 Hvy_Cavalry_Sgt

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 19:14

I have never seen a Gotha or HP in the game at all, but why are they flying so low? Sort of tough to drop bombs effectively from that altitude.
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#35 242Sqn_Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 19:44

It's a shame they couldn't make altitude arming fuse. This way you could set the minimum altitude before the bombs would arm the fuse.
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#36 gavagai

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 20:46

I have never seen a Gotha or HP in the game at all, but why are they flying so low? Sort of tough to drop bombs effectively from that altitude.

Because your odds of success are higher when there are no ground units to shoot the crap out of you with rifles and machine guns.

That said, well done Jorri! I just wish your AI gunner wouldn't fire right past your head and in between all those bracing wires. :?
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#37 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 20:53

It's a shame they couldn't make altitude arming fuse. This way you could set the minimum altitude before the bombs would arm the fuse.

Says the man who developed the tactic of low flying HPs on the hellequins server whilst listening into the other teams t/s channel and using a ghost account to map watch (radar) to avoid enemy planes.

At one point a few months ago you could guarantee 9 out of 10 times the treetop bomber on there was you (when you weren't just spamming targets to cheat your way up the leader board - but they do say a turd always floats to the top)

Good double (triple???) standards.
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#38 NewGuy_

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 21:39

Here's how to deal with them:


Very nice video Jorri! I am going to have to carry the bombs for my SPAD 13, from now on! ;) :S!: MJ
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Something something SPAD. Something something then dive away. 


#39 Kongo_Otto

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 22:23

It's a shame they couldn't make altitude arming fuse. This way you could set the minimum altitude before the bombs would arm the fuse.

Says the man who developed the tactic of low flying HPs on the hellequins server whilst listening into the other teams t/s channel and using a ghost account to map watch (radar) to avoid enemy planes.

At one point a few months ago you could guarantee 9 out of 10 times the treetop bomber on there was you (when you weren't just spamming targets to cheat your way up the leader board - but they do say a turd always floats to the top)

Good double (triple???) standards.


I would say no standards at all.
:lol: :S!:
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#40 242Sqn_Wolf

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 23:25

It's a shame they couldn't make altitude arming fuse. This way you could set the minimum altitude before the bombs would arm the fuse.

Says the man who developed the tactic of low flying HPs on the hellequins server whilst listening into the other teams t/s channel and using a ghost account to map watch (radar) to avoid enemy planes.

At one point a few months ago you could guarantee 9 out of 10 times the treetop bomber on there was you (when you weren't just spamming targets to cheat your way up the leader board - but they do say a turd always floats to the top)

Good double (triple???) standards.

Actually I got most of those point by flying a Handley Page at 3000m. Shows you what you know.
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