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Stuttering after 1.021 Update


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#41 ICDP

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 07:03

Let's not go to ultimatums, OK? This is day 1 of the new update and the dev team will figure out what the problem is and get a fix out as quickly as possible. There was a previous patch (forgot which one now) that also introduced some performance problems for a lot of people and the dev team worked very hard and got out fix that corrected the issue. So give them some time to sort out the scope and nature of the problem.

It isn't an ultimatum, it's a statement of fact. 1.020 worked flawlessly on my PC in all weather, great FPS at 2560x1600 with full detail apart from supersampling. 1.021 has introduced stutters and horrible FPS in overcast. So the fact is that something changed in the code that has broken RoF on AMD hardware.

I never let one single game dictate my hardware purchasing decisions, if a particular game runs crap on AMD or Nvidia I will simply avoid that game rather than deny myself an entire product range. For example Dragon Age II on release had serious problems on Nvidia hardware. Even though I don't have Nvidia hardware I decided not to purchase because someday I might have Nvidia hardware as I change my GPU at least once a year.

I have faith that the devs will get to the bottom of the issue and that this bug will be fixed.
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#42 JoeS475

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 07:08

This is my first time posting here… I just downloaded the free demo of ROF last week and love it! I was debating the last couple of days which planes to buy to add to my hangar, when I got the new update. Now it is stuttering so much it isn't worth flying. My system is an h8-1020 (stock, which has an ATI Radeon 6570 graphics card). ROF installed a version of DirectX, it didn't tell me which… could a new or different DirectX have done this?

Joe
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#43 HotTom

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 07:20

I'm not boasting but I have an AMD (ATI actually no longer exists; it was bought by AMD and renamed) card (6870 1 Gig) and notice zero problems with the 1.021 update with no change in graphics settings since previous versions and the same drivers.

I know that doesn't help anyone who is having problems (wish I could make suggestions but Jason is the graphics guru and my skills and understanding are quite limited) but it should be noted the stuttering isn't universal.

I can post my settings but they aren't unusual.
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#44 Greywing2

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 07:27

No stutters here, but here is my suggestion. Download the full 1021 version from torrrent. Backup your inputs form the current install. Uninstall the game. Install the new version. Copy the saved input files into input directory of the game. Defrag the HDD with Mydefrag (its free). Dont use any antivirus software when ROF is running. Dont forget to change the graphic settings (because after reinstall it will reset to default values.
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#45 HotTom

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 07:33

No stutters here, but here is my suggestion. Download the full 1021 version from torrrent. Backup your inputs form the current install. Uninstall the game. Install the new version. Copy the saved input files into input directory of the game. Defrag the HDD with Mydefrag (its free). Dont use any antivirus software when ROF is running. Dont forget to change the graphic settings (because after reinstall it will reset to default values.

I did defrag after downloading and installing the update. Always do when I install new stuff.

But all the rest? I didn't. As long as I am connected to the master service by the internet, my antivirus stays on.

For those having problems, a complete reinstall might not hurt, though. Maybe something didn't overwrite properly.

Just a thought….
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#46 AndrewHart

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 08:56

Is it possible that the enhancements done in this upodate to improve the NVIDIA cards has somehow had a detrimental effect on the AMD/ATI cards?

I'm sure the developers will get to the bottom of this issue - just hope it's sooner rather than later .. I've tried everything .. reinstalls,changes FPS and other things.. I'm Still getting the stuttering ..

Sim pretty much unplayable :(
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#47 D.Smith

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:41

I also have the same stuttering problem 1.020 ran smooth with memory at 69%.

Core 2 Quad 3.0Ghz
HD5870 1GB
Catalyst 11.6
Windows 7 x64
8GB RAM

Supersampling is not on and I do not have Multi-GPU enabled.

Looks like I am going back to 1.020 :x
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#48 AndrewHart

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:44

How can you go back to 1.020 ? … You will not be able to log online …???
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#49 D.Smith

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:50

How can you go back to 1.020 ? … You will not be able to log online …???

I backed up 1.020 on external hard drive before updating to 1.021.
I am pretty sure that if I copy it back to my PC it will still work. There is something in the forum here about doing this. :S!:
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#50 AndrewHart

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:07

ok .. I didn't think you could do that because as soon as you log online, the system tells you that your version is out of date and forces you to upgrade. I'll investigate. Thanks
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#51 Greywing2

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:15

guys with stuttering problems….just download the full 1.021 version form torrent and try with clean install…
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#52 AndrewHart

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 10:37

So you suggest a clean uninstall .. then a clean reinstall from torrent ?
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#53 Greywing2

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:11

So you suggest a clean uninstall .. then a clean reinstall from torrent ?

yes, just save your input files before uninstalling…..
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#54 AndrewHart

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:24

OK Thanks ..I'm new to Torrent so just downloading the client first.. Hope this works !
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#55 adanhael

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:35

Yes that sucks, I own an alienware m17xR2 with an ati 5870 crossfire, and the game stutter even at 40% of video resources used… That's a royal pain in the @ss when I run other game maxed out without problem. And I bough that rig JUST to be able to play ROF everywhere!

what a letdown _| ̄|○
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#56 arjisme

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 12:54

I'm not boasting but I have an AMD (ATI actually no longer exists; it was bought by AMD and renamed) card (6870 1 Gig) and notice zero problems with the 1.021 update with no change in graphics settings since previous versions and the same drivers.

I know that doesn't help anyone who is having problems (wish I could make suggestions but Jason is the graphics guru and my skills and understanding are quite limited) but it should be noted the stuttering isn't universal.

I can post my settings but they aren't unusual.
Same here. The problem isn't universal. It does seem that it impacts only ATI card users, but it doesn't impact all of them. It is also interesting that 1.021 got through developer testing, beta testing and open beta testing without finding this problem and surely some of those have an ATI setup.

Maybe we should compare configurations between machines that work and those with the issue?
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#57 SYN_Mike77

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:13

I have turned everything in RoF to off or lowest setting getting down to 6% of video memory used and still get the stutters. The fact that this is not universal to all ATI users suggest to me that those of us who are having the problem might have some setting in catalyst that is causing the problems. Could someone without stuttering post their catalyst settings? I'd like to check vs my settings.

Short of doing a full reinstall should we try recovery first?
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#58 Aiobhill

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:15

No issues here flying with an AMD 6850, Win7 64 bit, Catalyst 11_6 and mods off in RoF 1.021. I tried the described settings within QMB, overcast sky/heavy rain, close to the ground with several flights in the air. Absolutely smooth.

Might be interesting to know what in the code was actually changed between 1.020 and 1.021. The TWIMTBP guys were rumored to be almost as happy causing AMD issues as fixing their own. :twisted:

edit:

Okay, getting closer. When I turn on "Super-sample AA" under

Gaming -> 3D Application Setting -> Anti-Aliasing Mode

in Catalyst the game becomes quite choppy. Not completely unplayable as described by some, but still bad.
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#59 2LtBlake

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:20

going on day 2 not being able to fly. One suggestion was that I uninstall game and reinstall with torrent. How bout if I baught the game and have the CD. Can I use that instead of "torrent"?

Im no computer wizzard. Everytime a new update comes out I always wondered when my game would stop working. The time is now. I have not the patience for
FRED (efin rediculous electronic devices.)

I am a ww1 finatic. Mostly because of the simplicity of the times and machines. I fell in love with the idea of being able to fly semi realistic missions in the crates of that era. I just want my plug and play ROF back.

my system
AMD Phenom II quadcore
ATI Radeon HD 5450 with 512 MB DDR3 dedicated memory
8GB DDR3 Systems Memory
1 Terabite harddrive
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#60 Greywing2

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:28

going on day 2 not being able to fly. One suggestion was that I uninstall game and reinstall with torrent. How bout if I baught the game and have the CD. Can I use that instead of "torrent"?

Im no computer wizzard. Everytime a new update comes out I always wondered when my game would stop working. The time is now. I have not the patience for
FRED (efin rediculous electronic devices.)

I am a ww1 finatic. Mostly because of the simplicity of the times and machines. I fell in love with the idea of being able to fly semi realistic missions in the crates of that era. I just want my plug and play ROF back.

my system
AMD Phenom II quadcore
ATI Radeon HD 5450 with 512 MB DDR3 dedicated memory
8GB DDR3 Systems Memory
1 Terabite harddrive

with top sims (always hardware demanding) its never (plug and play).
So heres my advices:
1) Download the LATEST Rof version from torrent (you cant use your CD because its older version).
2) save any input files you might have.
3) uninstall your current version of ROF
4) Install the new 1.021 version you downloaded from torrent
5) download MyDefrag (its free) and defrag your drives/partitions
6) Be sure you dont have any antivirus or antispyware program running in the background
7) Start your game

ATI 5450 is far from being a top noch card but it should give you good performance with reduced graphic settings….you can find them within ROF settings screen. So go to ROF settings and tone down the settings. Shadows and refelctions have the biggest impact on your performance so turn them OFF.
If youll have some savings in the future, buy a better card since you have a good CPU and more than enough of RAM. My advice is Nvidia GTX 560 (cheaper) or 570 (more expensive). Less problems in ROF with ATI. But if you like ATI 6950 would be a good pick. Pick a card with at least 1GB of video RAM as it is pretty important in ROF.
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#61 AndrewHart

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:40

So are you saying I cannot use my original CD to reinstall ? .. I would have guessed you could and all that happens is it asks you to update to the latest version? …
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#62 ICDP

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:45

After much testing I can confirm the stutters are caused by the ground bumpmap (shaders quality maximum). Reducing to shaders high removes the stutters caused by this bumpmap.

No matter what seetings I use I get extreme lag and sub 10 FPS performance in overcast conditions. Even reducing absolutely everything to low doesn't fix the overcast issue.

Both of these issues combined are a game breaker for me. I could fly with shaders maximum and overcast conditions pre patch, it is now giving me stutters close to the ground in 1.021. It is totally unplayable in overcast conditions. For me to get decent performance I have to reduce quality AND not even attempt to fly any missions that have overcast.

Whatever code that has been "Nvidified" in regards to shaders is causing serious stutters on AMD hardware.
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#63 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:48

So are you saying I cannot use my original CD to reinstall ? .. I would have guessed you could and all that happens is it asks you to update to the latest version? …

You can but you will have to download loads of updates.
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#64 ICDP

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:52

To be honest downloading and installing the latest RoF from a torrent is not going to make any difference. The version on your CD gets updated to exact same version as the torrent, otherwise you couldn't logon to the game. It is an absolutely identical version wether you download the latest torrent or update your older version.

1. RoF 1.020 worked perfectly on AMD/ATI GPUs.
2. Update RoF to 1.021 with no other changes to the system/os/hardware/drivers.
3. RoF broken on AMD/ATI GPUs
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#65 Joker_BR

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:58

1. RoF 1.020 worked perfectly on AMD/ATI GPUs.
2. Update RoF to 1.021 with no other changes to the system/os/hardware/drivers.
3. RoF broken on AMD/ATI GPUs

That's my point, too. I would agree with hardware limits and "time to review/change my specs" if this patch had introduced a totally new graphic engine or something, but I don't think it's the case.

BTW, saw that the DEMO is still the 1.020 version. Downloading now to get it back on my rig and compare performance.

EDIT: OOps, the torrent points to an .exe that my AV blocked as malware… other links (HTTP) are pointing to 1.021 already… ???
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#66 AndrewHart

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 13:59

That is so true .. I'm in the middle of a torrent download as i'm desperate to try anything to get it back working.. I'm puzzled why I cannot just install the old CD and let the update take place. (but i'm no expert).. All i'd like to hear on this topic is some kind of update from the developer guys.. I'm sure they have our interests at heart and are working to resolve .. an update would be nice and stop all the speculation. I'm sure they would not just do an update that favoured Nvida cards and left us AMD peeps in the lurch ?
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#67 Greywing2

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 14:01

I'm puzzled why I cannot just install the old CD and let the update take place

ofcourse you can do that, BUT, then you wil apply updates…and updates are the reason why I suggested clean install..sometimes updates can mess up things…so its better to try with clean install of the NEVEST (full) version of the game…

btw also try this:

possible solution to stuttering issues for AMD users

means, check if you have super sampling ON. It should be off as only top notch PC can handle that (and its questionable too). Also textures (in ROF settings) shouldnt be at max.
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#68 AndrewHart

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 14:08

sound ok to me .. i'm trying it
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#69 meezer3

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 14:21

To be honest downloading and installing the latest RoF from a torrent is not going to make any difference. The version on your CD gets updated to exact same version as the torrent, otherwise you couldn't logon to the game. It is an absolutely identical version wether you download the latest torrent or update your older version.

1. RoF 1.020 worked perfectly on AMD/ATI GPUs.
2. Update RoF to 1.021 with no other changes to the system/os/hardware/drivers.
3. RoF broken on AMD/ATI GPUs

Well, to be fair, I don't think 1.020 worked perfectly on AMD video cards…I certainly still had to lower my settings beyond what I can achieve with other games. My rig should be capable of churning out good FPS with 50% memory usage, but it never has, even before 1.021.

SO, My update from last night's download of the update:

I downloaded the update from the start-up menu, and installed. Everything went smoothly. I then bought the SpadVII (awesome plane, btw,) and its field modifications. I then started up RoF and tried out a Quick Mission. Everything seemed pretty darn normal, FPS was good, and no shadow glitches.

I then deleted my old career, and started a new Spad VII career. Again, things seemed to be going well, BUT…Taking off and flying for a bit at low level didn't produce any stutter that I could notice. However, upon flying an entire mission, and returning to base, my descent into the aerodrome revealed a noticeable stutter. How bad was the stutter? I don't know if I would say it was game-ruining, but it still made landing slightly harder. The odd aspect of the stutter was that it was in bursts. FPS was smooth, then all of a sudden, a half second pause. Then a second or two of smoothness, then another stutter. As I got lower and lower, the increment of time between stutters increased, and then as I landed it seemed that my FPS had simply decreased.

Overall though, I would not say the performance drop is dramatic. I certainly haven't noticed anything amiss while I was in the air flying around.

EDIT: I think I should mention that unless the new skin-packs were included in the update torrent, I didn't download any new skins. The Spad VII, at least, only has one default skin on my current game. I don't know if this could be contributing at all…

My system:

2011 (two week-old) HP Envy 17
Windows 7 64 bit
Intel i7 2GHz
Radeon HD 6850M
8 GB of memory

My current settings for the game are:

Post Effects: OFF
Full-screen with FPS limiter to 50
All other settings medium to high.
AA at 8x
Visibility distance at 50
Low sound quality
24% memory usage

Although these problems are annoying, I urge people to exercise restraint when posting their issues on the forum. I'm not a moderator, but still, there is a difference between reacting to the new AMD issues, and being proactive in fixing them. Reactionary, knee-jerk anger is understandable, but posting it all over the public forum doesn't do anyone any favors, and it just makes it all that much harder to pick through it to find useful information. I want to remind everyone we occupy a niche market of gamers; I'm glad RoF is doing well, but we can't just hammer away at the devs and expect them to act like some corporate, monolithic edifice. In fact, I'm glad they don't, because it means they listen to us, as opposed to some massive publishing company that doesn't give two hoots about resolving issues after a game launch. We should all be so lucky.
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#70 Harlej

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 15:06

I can set what I like, even with memory usage 11% (no post effects) have stuttering near water, trees. My ATI 5650 isn't monster but before patch game was running really lovely.
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#71 ICDP

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 15:07

To be honest downloading and installing the latest RoF from a torrent is not going to make any difference. The version on your CD gets updated to exact same version as the torrent, otherwise you couldn't logon to the game. It is an absolutely identical version wether you download the latest torrent or update your older version.

1. RoF 1.020 worked perfectly on AMD/ATI GPUs.
2. Update RoF to 1.021 with no other changes to the system/os/hardware/drivers.
3. RoF broken on AMD/ATI GPUs


Well, to be fair, I don't think 1.020 worked perfectly on AMD video cards…I certainly still had to lower my settings beyond what I can achieve with other games. My rig should be capable of churning out good FPS with 50% memory usage, but it never has, even before 1.021.

I was referring to it running perfectly without stutters in 1.020. The fact that some people have to lower the graphics settings is not what's being raised here. The issue is that stutters have been introduced with 1.021 that were NOT there with 1.020. You even stated yourself further down your post that using the same settings resulted in increased stutter and lag where there was none prior to 1.021.

I might seem angry and but I can assure you this is nothing more than an irritant. It has made the game almost unplayable for me as I only ever play offline and get plenty off overcast days in the career. Now some might say I should lower my graphics quality and simply abort any missions with overcast weather. That is a fair enough solution in the short term, but long term I would hope to see this issue fixed.

I have been running tests all morning trying to find the culprit. My tests (as I mentioned earlier) show that the stutter is caused by the ground bumpmap and that overcast conditions cause serious unplayable FPS drops. Neither of these issues were there prior to 1.020.

The fact that AMD haven't responded to Jason's emails is irrelevant. It worked before, they changed something, now it doesn't, change it back.

Simples :)
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#72 ChiefRedCloud

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 16:22

The fact that AMD haven't responded to Jason's emails is irrelevant. It worked before, they changed something, now it doesn't, change it back.

Simples :)
I'm going to stick my hand out here and most likely get it bit but, I take it your a programmer and know well what these devs have to do to pull all this together for us right? IF you are, then you should understand. IF your not then you need grow some patience and just a wee bit of understanding here.

The Devs are NOT pulling a Mel Gibson (aka Conspiracy Therory)on you here and most of the people are trying to help you ( and others) come to grips with this.
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#73 arjisme

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 16:35

Could someone without stuttering post their catalyst settings? I'd like to check vs my settings.
I haven't seen stutters with these settings:

Attached Files


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#74 HotTom

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 16:36

I'm not boasting but I have an AMD (ATI actually no longer exists; it was bought by AMD and renamed) card (6870 1 Gig) and notice zero problems with the 1.021 update with no change in graphics settings since previous versions and the same drivers.

I know that doesn't help anyone who is having problems (wish I could make suggestions but Jason is the graphics guru and my skills and understanding are quite limited) but it should be noted the stuttering isn't universal.

I can post my settings but they aren't unusual.
Same here. The problem isn't universal. It does seem that it impacts only ATI card users, but it doesn't impact all of them. It is also interesting that 1.021 got through developer testing, beta testing and open beta testing without finding this problem and surely some of those have an ATI setup.

Maybe we should compare configurations between machines that work and those with the issue?

No stutters here.

I have an AMD BE Phenom II x4 3.4 GHz, 8 Gigs of DDR3 Ram, TIR5, Radeon HD 6870 1 Gig, Logitech G940. If someone can tell me how to take a screen shot of my RoF graphics and Catalyst settings, I'll be glad to post them.
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#75 arjisme

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 16:39

What OS are you using HT?

BTW, no stutters with overcast either. I will try adjusting shaders to max to see if that gives me issues.

Edit: Google is your friend. :D For XP, press Alt-Print Screen to capture the currently selected windows. For Win 7, look under Accessories for the Snip Tool.
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#76 HotTom

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 16:46

What OS are you using HT?

BTW, no stutters with overcast either. I will try adjusting shaders to max to see if that gives me issues.

Edit: Google is your friend. :D For XP, press Alt-Print Screen to capture the currently selected windows. For Win 7, look under Accessories for the Snip Tool.

Win 7 64 bit.

I feel kinda dumb but I've never had any need to take a screen shot.

Might as well learn now :mrgreen:
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#77 ICDP

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 16:59

The fact that AMD haven't responded to Jason's emails is irrelevant. It worked before, they changed something, now it doesn't, change it back.

Simples :)
I'm going to stick my hand out here and most likely get it bit but, I take it your a programmer and know well what these devs have to do to pull all this together for us right? IF you are, then you should understand. IF your not then you need grow some patience and just a wee bit of understanding here.

The Devs are NOT pulling a Mel Gibson (aka Conspiracy Therory)on you here and most of the people are trying to help you ( and others) come to grips with this.

See the smiley? That means the associated post is in jest. Most of my posts on this subject have been trying to be helpfull, admittedly with a large smattering of sarcasm and frustration at times.

I am a firm believer in "cock-up before conspiracy". Simply put it seems like the devs made changes that helped SLI (and potentially Crossfire) users, they did this with the best intentions. Unfortunately the net effect of whatever they changed is that lots of stutter and broken overcast for many (not all) AMD/ATI users.

I don't need to be a programmer to know that my HD6970 worked great with 1.020, now it doesn't. The only change on my system is RoF update 1.021. I do have faith that the devs will fix the issue, in the meantime I wil continue testing and reporting anything I might think is helpfull from those tests.
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#78 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 17:03

RoF will save a screenshot in the game root directory every time you press print screen.
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#79 arjisme

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 17:04

The RoF master server seems to be down right now, but I got in to a QMB with Max set for shaders and flew in the rain at grasstop level. I got a few minor stutters initially but then none after that. Flew around and all was smooth. I am not sure about the initial stutters because it might have been related to losing the connection to the server. I will try again later when the server is back up.
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#80 StainlessOne

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 17:05

I'm running an XP system with an Athlon x2 5000+ but only 2 gigs RAM. Before this patch I could run at mediumish settings and 24% video mem and got "good" FPS in furballs. After this latest patch furballs ground the game to a halt. Anymore than three or four planes and it became a slid show, completely unplayable. So, I turned everything off and dropped to low settings except textures to medium. I'm at 14% video mem usage. I couldn't access the career mode this morning but I have flown several 2 v 2 fights in QMB and while the game looks like an advanced version of Red Baron now the fights are very fluid, good FPS and an occasional-maybe twice in a fight-stutters. I don't know what happened but something sure changed. /very sad now.
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