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Jasta 5 squadron "hack" BF2BF2


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#1 J5_Rumey

J5_Rumey
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Posted 26 June 2011 - 15:35

Hey man - frankly, I don't see any problem with a captured skin like this being submitted/approved as a historical skin. I have created and submitted a few captured skins myself and they're already in the game, and as far as I can tell the sky has not fallen in MP yet, notwithstanding the wailings of these Chicken Littles that posted in your thread.

So, if you want to go ahead and put the poll back in your first post, I'll be happy to close it out, process and submit it to 777.

If you want to resubmit it as fictional, I suppose you could, but to me that doesn't really help resolve the Chicken Littles' concerns about MP (if it's a problem for MP for the skin to be in the game, then it would be a problem regardless of whether it was in a Historical Pack or a Fictional Pack) - in which case, why not put it in as historical since it is historical and not fictional?

If you really don't want to submit it, then let me know and I'll go ahead and close out this thread, but my vote would be put the poll back in and let me process/submit it. Just let me know either way, so I can close out the thread either way.

Cheers,

Panther





(EDIT poll removed after consideration) Might try adding as fictional, it is historical but have to agree that potential for misuse is to great.


Bristol F2BF2, originally A7321, captured and flown by Jasta 5 pilots from september 1917 until May? 1918. Wing insciptions: Nicht schissen Gute Leute, Good People Don't Shoot. Jasta green with front of coveling painted red. Reference Jasta 5 vol 2 by GK Merrill.

(Might have to reupload at later time as I am not sure how Bristol F2B's should be named yet)

Attached File  Nictschissen.jpg   638.21KB   1385 downloads

Attached File  Jasta-5-hack-F2.jpg   1.5MB   1457 downloads

Attached File  Jasta-5-hack-F3.jpg   915.59KB   1457 downloads

Attached File  Jasta-5-hack-F1.jpg   820.34KB   1457 downloads

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#2 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 15:39

This is pathetic.

Why not skins for both sides for all planes?

If this plane existed at all, did it ever fly in combat?
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#3 J5_Rumey

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 15:44

Well it is historical, you always have the option to vote no. The intention is not to have it on both sides but to add to atmosphere, With the text on the wings it makes exelent prop for german airdromes ecpecially Boistrancourt. :) Also opens up some possibilities for special missions, delivering a lady from a joyride. I think it was not armed and never flew in combat. Was a squadron "hack".
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#4 J5_Baeumer

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 15:48

Tom,

You may wish to refer to page 3 of Volume 2 of the Jagdstaffel 5 book by GK Merrill to see the photo and description of this more historical than "pathetic" plane. Unforutnately, Rumey has not posted pictures showing the "Nicht Schiessen! Gute Leute painted on the top of the upper and lower wings. Perhaps he will do so shortly.
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Paul Bäumer

Jagdstaffel (Jasta) 5

www.jasta5.org


#5 HotTom

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  • Posts: 8177

Posted 26 June 2011 - 15:51

Ah the Jasta 5 boys leap to the defense of a dumb idea!

It's not a pathetic plane! It's inviting pathetic abuse if it is included as a historical skin.

If you would care to send me that book (or just scan the pages) and it says it was flown in combat missions, I'll change my vote to aye.

As for just providing scenery? Atmosphere? Gimme a break… :xx:
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#6 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 15:54

Perhaps you could create a static object with this skin instead if you want to use it for scenery only.
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#7 HotTom

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 15:56

Perhaps you should create a static object with this skin instead if you want to use it for scenery only.

I would vote for that…if we had static planes at the aerodromes…

It IS a nice skin BTW :P
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#8 J5_Rumey

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 16:20

Dunno added top view to sceenshots. Thing is I was also worried about abuse, but seems few of this type of skins are allreay in? As for static object, mehh cant take the girls up in it then now can I? ;) However a devs word on this would not hurt I guess, I would go with the flow. Still want this in mods off mode in some way.

As for questioning my sources :( I really strive to get things as close to photos and profiles that I can. The books can be found for purchase here: www.windsockdatafilespecials.co.uk/jasta-5-volume-2-20-p.asp
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#9 rOEN911

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 18:11

Take these mate and correct your skin.Nice so far.

Image

I will send you the e-books witch i got from the Bristol and I also Have the Jagdstaffel 5 Volume One and two, i will upload them later .
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#10 J5_Rumey

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 21:47

Rgr have photo from book with markings I have used, says that is the final guise. Guess photo above is from an earlier stage. But will look into it again. Might be that I withdraw the poll though if enough people are worried about abuse. Was kind of whishing that this comunity would be above abuseing.

Ohh and Roen no need for the e-books I have the printed and bought ones.
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#11 J2_Wallenberg

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 22:04

Yes!
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#12 J5_Schneider

J5_Schneider
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Posted 27 June 2011 - 00:07

Helga and Olga at the The Hofbräu Haus told me to vote yes.
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#13 J5_Rumey

J5_Rumey
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Posted 27 June 2011 - 05:27

Thanks for the votes gents, but after consideration I think the critiqes might be right in this case. To high potential for misuse. Will close this poll. Might repost as fictional, or just leave it for mods off. Could still use it for j5 flightlines I guess setting server mods on.
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#14 Zoring

Zoring
  • Posts: 850

Posted 27 June 2011 - 09:14

How could it possibly be abused online? Oh i see a Bristol fighter coming towards me! Being German i know that it is on the allied side. I will shoot it. Oh it has German markings, nevermind it's still firing madly at me. I will destroy it.

Add it in, and let us use it in a Jasta 5 Single-player career too :)
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#15 J2_Wallenberg

J2_Wallenberg
  • Posts: 1600

Posted 27 June 2011 - 10:15

Thanks for the votes gents, but after consideration I think the critiqes might be right in this case. To high potential for misuse. Will close this poll. Might repost as fictional, or just leave it for mods off. Could still use it for j5 flightlines I guess setting server mods on.


I'm surely not the RoF veteran, but since I fly this game in MP, I've never encountered abuse. I did encounter teamkillers though, but that's another pair of shoes.

When will people learn that for quick identification I need to look at the aircraft's shape first and secondary signs then like markings and behaviour.

Please, this skin is as valid as any historical skin, cross or cockade, give it a chance to win the polls. There will be the day you will curse your decision when Jasta 5 or anyone else wants to host a mission featuring their squadron hack.
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#16 Zoring

Zoring
  • Posts: 850

Posted 27 June 2011 - 10:33

Yes what he said, although going from the photo the skin needs a few little changes, the tone around the middle section of the fuselage, and rudder (where the RFC markings were painted over no doubt) and the white edges around the Iron Crosses :) Plus the serial number on the tail
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#17 GrassGuy

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 11:52

yes
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#18 J5_Rumey

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 13:10

Regarding photo, the plane had many iterations, the one I portray would be the final one. The one in the photo beeing an early one. I have used merrill's book for referance.
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#19 thenorm

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 15:30

I agree that it should be included as historical, because it is just that.
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#20 Sirocco

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 15:52

As a historical aircraft if it wasn't used in action then it's out of scope and shouldn't be considered as a historical skin.
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#21 J2_Wallenberg

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 20:09

"pressed into service as squadron hack" (see Osprey scan, page 1 of this thread) sounds much like "used in action" to me…
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#22 J5_Rumey

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 12:46

Just for aruments sake, if you gents argue that not flying in combat makes a skin be unhistorical, then you would vote no for this excelent skin to? riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=338&t=21555 I would not think so, we have plenty of trainers in this game allready and they look great. So I agree to remove this skin for the risk of red vs blue abuse, but not because it probably did not fly in combat, mark my words it could have while a Trainer newer would have.

I know I am beating a dead chicken :xx:
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#23 rOEN911

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 13:06

No i dont agree,this is historical what ever other people said.

Image
Image
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#24 Sirocco

Sirocco
  • Posts: 1966

Posted 28 June 2011 - 14:21

"pressed into service as squadron hack" (see Osprey scan, page 1 of this thread) sounds much like "used in action" to me…

I think "hack" indicates it was not used in action, but used for miscalleanous tasks. The qualifier "hack" has to indicate something unusual.
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#25 HotTom

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  • Posts: 8177

Posted 28 June 2011 - 14:28

"pressed into service as squadron hack" (see Osprey scan, page 1 of this thread) sounds much like "used in action" to me…

I think "hack" indicates it was not used in action, but used for miscalleanous tasks. The qualifier "hack" has to indicate something unusual.

+1

As I said in another thread, "hack" is short for hackney, originally a horse-drawn carriage for hire.

A "hack" is a taxi cab. Even in American slang.

Not a fighter plane.

No doubt the plane was historical but, if it was called a "hack" (think taxi cab), it was used for non-combat missions.

HT
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#26 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 16:36

It looks lighter in Roen's picture…
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#27 NewGuy_

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 16:45

I was kind of hoping that we would eventually see captured planes added, some of the time, not most of the time, to single player and multiplayer missions. It is my understanding that captured planes were used in WW1 and that this would add to realism, rather than take away from realism. I can think of several notable examples of Central Powers pilots using; at least one Camel and one SPAD, in combat operations; if it is not historical that a Brisfit was used, it is at least realistic (captured planes were used in combat, some of the time) and plausible, IMHO, so I will vote yes, when J5_Rumey puts this up for a vote. :S!: MJ
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Something something SPAD. Something something then dive away. 


#28 J2_Wallenberg

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  • Posts: 1600

Posted 28 June 2011 - 17:04

"pressed into service as squadron hack" (see Osprey scan, page 1 of this thread) sounds much like "used in action" to me…

I think "hack" indicates it was not used in action, but used for miscalleanous tasks. The qualifier "hack" has to indicate something unusual.

+1
[…]

No doubt the plane was historical but, if it was called a "hack" (think taxi cab), it was used for non-combat missions.

HT

The term "used", for whatever, combat or not combat, implies that the used aircraft existed, therefore it is as historical as any aircraft "used" in the era.

Gentlemen, I assume that you are too afraid of a vice we did not have to cope with in multiplayer yet, the mis-use of captured aircraft's skins. Please do not destroy the work of others in a fight against windmills. Your intentions may be just, but you didn't consider the proportions.
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#29 Zoring

Zoring
  • Posts: 850

Posted 28 June 2011 - 17:08

We have captured skins in-game, put the poll back on and force everyone to vote yes! Easy. They cannot be exploited online that is madness. In the future we may very well have ferry missions or planes flying around in the background in campaign, so put it ingame. Go!
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#30 Panthercules

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 03:26

Poll concluded on this skin in fictional section. Thread locked.
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