Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Best Joystick for RoF - doesn't have to be the cheapest!!


  • Please log in to reply
103 replies to this topic

#1 Capt.OReilly

Capt.OReilly
  • Posts: 170

Posted 29 April 2011 - 19:16

I've been browsing the forums here trying to establish what the best replacement for my Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X might be.

This device was fine when all I flew was FSX, but now it's lack of sensitivity & ultimate control is all too apparent.

So, I'm not looking for necessarily the "cheapest" joystick on the market, but something which possesses a decent amount of feel with the fine control required to pump lead into the bandit's fuselage.

A number of people have suggested the Thrustmaster T1600 as a possibility, but I have read a number of reviews which suggest that it's springing is too heavy for prolonged use. Others mention the Microsoft FFB model as a reasonable compromise, particularly if matched with a Saitek throttle quadrant.

So I guess my question is this: "If I'm not looking for a "cheap" control set-up for RoF - then what options would people recommend, based on their own experience"?

Thanks in advance for any advice, & sorry to bore the pants off everybody by raising this issue once more! :S!:
  • 0

#2 Viper69

Viper69
  • Posts: 5500

Posted 29 April 2011 - 20:03

Well, there are a bunch of camps on this.

I have two setups. I use a MSFFB stick and saitek throttle with CH pedals. My other setup is a CH fighterstick,pedals and saitek throttle. For precision I enjoy the CH but for feel and immersion I like the force feedback. It is really personal preference, if you can go some place to get hands on I would attempt to do so.
  • 0

#3 Blacksky

Blacksky
  • Posts: 51

Posted 29 April 2011 - 20:07

i´m flying with a warthog and simped-pedals. Very comfi and very precise.
So now i know its just my poor aim to blame and not the stick ;-)
  • 0

#4 aircastellon

aircastellon
  • Posts: 436

Posted 29 April 2011 - 20:58

i´m flying with a warthog and simped-pedals. Very comfi and very precise.
So now i know its just my poor aim to blame and not the stick ;-)

Hi, what simped model?… Where you bought it?

Thanks
  • 0

#5 IRFC_SmokinHole

IRFC_SmokinHole
  • Posts: 1861

Posted 29 April 2011 - 21:19

Search "Smokin' Hole" and you will find an obnoxious broken record of posts all over the web made by me stating how much I love the G940. This is yet another one…
  • 0

#6 Blacksky

Blacksky
  • Posts: 51

Posted 29 April 2011 - 21:59

i´m flying with a warthog and simped-pedals. Very comfi and very precise.
So now i know its just my poor aim to blame and not the stick ;-)

Hi, what simped model?… Where you bought it?

Thanks


http://shop.strato.d...ts/"SP 0105005"" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://shop.strato.d...ages/219707.sf/ … 0105005%22


i have the old gameport-version, so i use my old cougar as gameport-works fine for me.
  • 0

#7 Miggins

Miggins
  • Posts: 3115

Posted 29 April 2011 - 22:17

The t16000m does have a heavy spring in there for sure, but it is also really accurate.

I prefer the MSFFB2 + Saitek throttle quadrant and Momo wheel pedal set for rudder.

The FFB2 made a great difference over the 16000m, especially in accuracy for me, and turning down the FFB to .45 means you don't get a sore arm after several hours flying too.

I think the FFB2 is a little less "accurate" as a joystick in that it doesn't use the Hall sensors, but this is overweighted by actually getting your guns on target in the first place, which is way easier with the FFB2 than the t16000m, at least I have found it so.
  • 0

#8 aircastellon

aircastellon
  • Posts: 436

Posted 29 April 2011 - 23:15

i´m flying with a warthog and simped-pedals. Very comfi and very precise.
So now i know its just my poor aim to blame and not the stick ;-)

Hi, what simped model?… Where you bought it?

Thanks


http://shop.strato.d...ts/"SP 0105005"" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://shop.strato.d...ages/219707.sf/ … 0105005%22


i have the old gameport-version, so i use my old cougar as gameport-works fine for me.

Which is the difference between simped vario usb and pro usb?
  • 0

#9 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 29 April 2011 - 23:37

A number of people have suggested the Thrustmaster T1600 as a possibility, but I have read a number of reviews which suggest that it's springing is too heavy for prolonged use.

Nope. I've got bad hands as a result of an accident and surgeries, but even I don't have a problem using my T-16000M for hours at a time. Spring's heavier than other joysticks I've used but even I with my semi-crippled hands (I have difficulty opening a bottle of soda) have no problem with the Thrustmaster's spring. Hands were a little sore for a couple of days then my muscles became stronger.

I strongly recommend the Thrustmaster T-16000M if you're on a budget, but since you aren't on a budget, there are better options out there.

i´m flying with a warthog and simped-pedals. Very comfi and very precise.

By all available information, this seems to be the best setup commercially available at present. If I had the money, I would order a Thrustmaster Warthog and a pair of Simped pedals at once.
  • 0

#10 W1ndy

W1ndy
  • Posts: 1475

Posted 30 April 2011 - 00:52

I recommend the MSSWFF2. I use it with cheap Logitech racing wheel pedals too, and another joystick as a throttle.

Like Miggins said, you can get your guns on the target with the FF2, and it is great for immersion. It just feels good.
  • 0

#11 Eliraiden07

Eliraiden07
  • Posts: 63

Posted 30 April 2011 - 01:19

If you dont mind the price, go with CH Products,you wont be disappointed.I use a CH Combatstick just because its a bit more simple than the Fightersick plus its a bit cheaper,in addition I have the CH throttle quadrant(most people just want the ch pro throttle but i need all those levers)and the CH rudder pedals.The whole hotas setup is just top quality,super precise joystick,all really sturdy and a long list of satisfied customers and a great customer service.I had a Logitech Force 3D Pro before and although forcefeedback was great specially with ROF,everything else was just crap.
  • 0

#12 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 30 April 2011 - 04:52

I used CH Products for ten years. About 70% of them came defective in some way; one time some of the wiring inside had been reversed, one of my pairs of pedals had the brake axis fail within a week of gentle use (didn't even have functions mapped to that axis), and at least twice there was damage causing the joystick to not center properly. Very poor quality control.

On the CH Combat Stick, precision was good but everything else sucked. The throw was good for control but bad for comfort (required too much rotation of the hand). The comfort was poor, the spring mechanism was poor, the button placement was poor, and the durability was poor. Constantly were breaking internally and requiring repairs.

CH Pro Pedals had decent precision and throw, but they're far too close together for precise control and comfort, and the spring mechanism was poor. Cord was placed very inconveniently.

CH yoke was horrible. About a full inch of play at the center, the least precise thing I've used other than Logitech.



Meanwhile, the Thrustmaster T-16000M (which is about a third of the price of the CH Combat Stick) has vastly superior center precision, comfort, button placement, and spring mechanism. Its Hall effect sensors do not grow to spike the way that potentiometers quickly do. Its only negatives compared to the CH Combat Stick are fewer overall buttons and less fine-tune stall-area control because of the less throw.
  • 0

#13 LukeFF

LukeFF
  • Tester
  • Posts: 7853
  • LocationRedlands, California

Posted 30 April 2011 - 04:57

Which is the difference between simped vario usb and pro usb?

That seems to be a mystery to me as well. It'd probably be best to just e-mail the manufacturer to find out.

That said, I own the F-16 version. They are a superb piece of equipment, that's for sure.
  • 0

#14 Blacksky

Blacksky
  • Posts: 51

Posted 30 April 2011 - 09:43

Which is the difference between simped vario usb and pro usb?

That seems to be a mystery to me as well. It'd probably be best to just e-mail the manufacturer to find out.

That said, I own the F-16 version. They are a superb piece of equipment, that's for sure.

umm–the pro is more expensive and there is a nice "pro"tag on it…..

and-if i understand correctly the pro has 3 different programmed response-curves to choose from.


But whichever you get-they are really very very good and make a world of difference.
The warthog is really a great stick. I have not yet programmed anything in Target (no time to test) -but to be honest for RoF you won´t need half of the buttans any anyway ;-).
  • 0

#15 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 30 April 2011 - 18:17

http://www.dhs-elect...p?id=210&lng=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dhs-elect...p?id=210&lng=en

Apparently the difference is that Simped VarioPro is USB, while the Simped Vario/C must plug directly into the Thrustmaster Cougar. Not sure what "linear base characteristic" means, but only the Simped Vario/C has that in its description, so that might be another difference.
  • 0

#16 Capt.OReilly

Capt.OReilly
  • Posts: 170

Posted 30 April 2011 - 19:52

Thanks for the feedback folks!

Based on this, the MSFFB seems to be the favourite, with TM 1600 second & CH products third. Guess I need to get myself to a computer store & actually try a few of these out. Meantime, I'll keep playing with the response curves & see if I can improve my existing set-up.
  • 0

#17 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 30 April 2011 - 20:16

Based on this, the MSFFB seems to be the favourite, with TM 1600 second

T-16000M is Thrustmaster's low-budget stick. Since you aren't concerned about cost, you should look at Thrustmaster's high-end stick, the Warthog, instead. Also comes with a throttle. Note that the Warthog has no twist, so you'll need a good pair of pedals. Simped makes pedals which were designed to go with a Thrustmaster HOTAS setup.
  • 0

#18 W1ndy

W1ndy
  • Posts: 1475

Posted 30 April 2011 - 22:10

Thanks for the feedback folks!

Based on this, the MSFFB seems to be the favourite, with TM 1600 second & CH products third. Guess I need to get myself to a computer store & actually try a few of these out. p.

You realize the FF2 is not available retail ? You have to get it second hand on-line. This is an advantage because they can be had cheap, for now.
  • 0

#19 Capt.OReilly

Capt.OReilly
  • Posts: 170

Posted 01 May 2011 - 06:45

<< You realize the FF2 is not available retail ? You have to get it second hand on-line. This is an advantage because they can be had cheap, for now. >>

I didn't - so thanks for the heads-up!! :S!:
  • 0

#20 Blacksky

Blacksky
  • Posts: 51

Posted 01 May 2011 - 08:45

If you really don´t care about the money go for the warthog+simped pedals. Youi won´t find a better combo at moment. Downside: you´ll end at about €500…
  • 0

#21 Capt.OReilly

Capt.OReilly
  • Posts: 170

Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:29

I didn't actually say that I don't care about money - just that I wasn't looking for a "cheap" solution - not quite the same thing!!! :)

At the end of the day it comes down to the most cost effective solution - and for me a Warthog at 500 Euro certainly isn't it - even if I could justify that kind of expenditure on a single piece of kit (which I can't) it comes with far more bells & whistles than are required for RoF.

What I'm looking for is a good, medium priced solution which will combine good feel & response with accuracy. A couple of suggestions have been made, so I'll need to go and check them out before committing.

:S!:
  • 0

#22 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 01 May 2011 - 15:26

All, right, then, I do recommend the Thrustmaster T-16000M. That's what I'm using at the moment. Very good stick and very inexpensive. As for pedals, I'm using CH but do not recommend for the reasons previously stated. Too close together, just like the Logitech ones. Both Simped and Saitek make pedals which are the proper distance apart for a fighter. I've never used either of them, but the Saiteks are cheaper (they make a $100 U.S. pair and a $200+ pair) while the Simpeds use Hall sensors and so are evidently superior. Many of the great aces in this sim (Peter Zvan, Winger2, Taipan, etc.) use Simpeds. It shows.

So, my recommendation for a medium-cost good-quality rig would be Thrustmaster T-16000M (~$37 U.S.) and either a pair of $100 Saitek pedals or the ~$300 Simped Vario Pro pedals.
  • 0

#23 Capt.OReilly

Capt.OReilly
  • Posts: 170

Posted 01 May 2011 - 15:42

Thanks Josh - sounds like good advice.

I need to get myself to a store & try out a T-16000M for myself - it's certainly had enough recommendations here to be a serious contender.
  • 0

#24 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 01 May 2011 - 15:50

Meanwhile, the Thrustmaster T-16000M (which is about a third of the price of the CH Combat Stick) has vastly superior center precision, comfort, button placement, and spring mechanism. Its Hall effect sensors do not grow to spike the way that potentiometers quickly do. Its only negatives compared to the CH Combat Stick are fewer overall buttons and less fine-tune stall-area control because of the less throw.

I forgot to mention one other minor negative on the T-16000M—the twist does not have a locking mechanism, so if you are using pedals, you will need to duct tape the stick to keep it from twisting while you are pulling back and to the side. That's in addition to unbinding the twist axis, of course.
  • 0

#25 hq_Honeymonster

hq_Honeymonster
  • Posts: 621

Posted 01 May 2011 - 16:40

I think this joystick thing really does boil down towards personal preference. This is especially true with all the half decent sticks. My self I can't stand the T.16000 but others clearly like it. I think a try before you buy is the only answer. Peoples opinions seem to vary so wildly.
  • 0

#26 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 01 May 2011 - 16:46

There is some grey area in whether a joystick is "good" or "bad," but there are some absolutes as well.

For example, it's personal preference when I say that the T-16000M's centering mechanism feels better than the Logitech Wingman's, but it isn't debatable when I state that the T-16000M has superior center precision than the Logitech Wingman.* The former is opinion, the latter is fact.

What was it that you disliked about the Thrustmaster T-16000M?

*Using this truly miserable Logitech joystick as an example because it was without a doubt the very most imprecise joystick I've ever had the displeasure of handling. Ugh.
  • 0

#27 Aiobhill

Aiobhill
  • Posts: 60

Posted 01 May 2011 - 17:33

Obviously can't speak for anybody else, but when testing the T.16000M I disliked the button positioning and feel, the throttle and (this might matter to you or not) the awful design. Precision of the x/y-axes is obviously outstanding.

Went back to a 10 year old Logitech for now Logitech-WingMan-Extreme, which lacks precision especially when attacking ground targets, but is rock solid and fits my hand perfectly. It should work reasonably well in RoF as long as I stay away from Multiplayer.

I used to have a CH Gameport Stick almost 20 years ago, which was precise and felt unbreakable. With the TM Warthog and the Saitek 65 out of my price range, I am most likely to get a Combatstick soonish. Sadly the CH stuff is nowhere to be found in shops around here, so I'd have to mail-order without testing first.
  • 0

#28 hq_Honeymonster

hq_Honeymonster
  • Posts: 621

Posted 01 May 2011 - 17:50

There is some grey area in whether a joystick is "good" or "bad," but there are some absolutes as well.

For example, it's personal preference when I say that the T-16000M's centering mechanism feels better than the Logitech Wingman's, but it isn't debatable when I state that the T-16000M has superior center precision than the Logitech Wingman.* The former is opinion, the latter is fact.

What was it that you disliked about the Thrustmaster T-16000M?

*Using this truly miserable Logitech joystick as an example because it was without a doubt the very most imprecise joystick I've ever had the displeasure of handling. Ugh.

Liked:

Precision

The fact it can be converted to left of right handed use

Nice stiff twist if (if you use it)

Weighty base and sticky feet

Disliked:

Stiffness, really really hard work

Handle feel, shape is the worst of all my joysticks

Recessed buttons and their positioning

Silly green light around the stick

Throttle position/shape (this is a necessary to make it suitable for left and right hand use)

Top hat and surrounding buttons are very cheap looking/feeling and their isn't enough of them

Found the stick to fat overall.

Trigger has loads of play before it reaches the switch

I opened it up and found the inside no more pleasing than the outside. I know this is a budget stick.

To be honest the accuracy is the only thing I liked about it comapared to the other 3 sticks I own every single thing about it felt and looked worse.

My Logitech force 3d actually has the best shape/feel, button layout/numbers but is completely unusable due to extremely poor sensitivity and resolution.

I like the MSFFB2 best but it seriously lacks buttons, the twist is too light and the top hat is equally crap. The cheapy black Widow has a nice rubbery covering, excellent button lay out but is crap in every other department.

It's a constant battle :lol:

Still overall I like my MSFFB2 compared to all the other sticks I have tried. I can not comment on the really high end stuff as I haven't tried it.

Cheers

Attached Files


  • 0

#29 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 01 May 2011 - 18:34

Good assessment. Of course I disagree with your overall conclusion, as I like the T-16000M, but most of your negatives I have indeed noted myself (although I am not particularly bothered by them). My primary concern is precision, my secondary concern is durability, and my tertiary concern is comfort. All other factors come after that in priority.

Of your dislikes, the only ones that I'd have to disagree with are the comfort issues. The spring is indeed stiff, but as I wrote in a previous post in my thread, even with severe hand injuries and surgeries which left my hands incapable of comfortably opening a sealed bottle or jar, after a few days of use one should grow accustomed to this stick's spring. As for the shape of the stick, it doesn't fit my hand perfectly but it is much more comfortable for my smaller (and damaged) hands than my old CH was. The trigger play doesn't affect me, as I simply hold it squeezed almost all the way so that all I have to do is "click" it over the threshold to fire the guns. It would be a problem if there wasn't a definite click, or if the trigger spring were stronger, but it isn't.

I did, however, replace the right-handed thumb rest on my T-16000M with the optional left-handed palm pad (a simple operation requiring only a single screw being removed, as per the instructions). I'm right handed, but having both the left-handed and right-handed palm pads on (instead of the right-handed palm pad and the right-handed thumb rest) made the joystick more comfortable for me. (Edit: oops, I see by your picture that you've already done this.)

But this is, as we agreed, a grey area. : ) To the O.P.: good luck. I hope you find a stick which not only feels good to you, but has the absolute positives as well. It's important to have both.
  • 0

#30 Tom-Cundall

Tom-Cundall
  • Posts: 5549

Posted 01 May 2011 - 22:21

Still overall I like my MSFFB2 compared to all the other sticks I have tried. I can not comment on the really high end stuff as I haven't tried it.

Ben is the washing machine to simulate vibration when flying (on a full spin cycle)?
  • 0

#31 hq_Honeymonster

hq_Honeymonster
  • Posts: 621

Posted 01 May 2011 - 22:48

Still overall I like my MSFFB2 compared to all the other sticks I have tried. I can not comment on the really high end stuff as I haven't tried it.

Ben is the washing machine to simulate vibration when flying (on a full spin cycle)?

No Ant it's a tumble dryer and it's there to add to the immersion when I'm flying the SE5. All that hot air and commotion without making much progress. :mrgreen:
  • 0

#32 BigMorgan

BigMorgan
  • Posts: 38

Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:08

This has been dead almost a week, but I just noticed that Tiger Direct has the T16000M on sale for $29.99 - at that price I'm seriously debating ditching my Saitek Evo Wireless now rather than patiently saving enough for a true HOTAS + pedals setup.

http://www.tigerdire...24338&CatId=141" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.tigerdire...om/applications … &CatId=141
  • 0

#33 242Sqn_Wolf

242Sqn_Wolf
  • Posts: 2881

Posted 11 May 2011 - 02:16

If your looking for a good set I would suggest CH all around. 1) I had them all in the past most last on average about 6 month. Keep in mind I fly about 20 hrs a week. Yep I'm an addict. 2) This is my four year with the same CH set up. Yes they cost more but they have already paid for themselves. Now if only I can find a good head set. IMHO.
  • 0

#34 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6356
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 11 May 2011 - 03:51

I also use CH all around. Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals. I've had them for 6 years. No problems.
  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#35 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 11 May 2011 - 03:53

Used CH exclusively for ten years. Plagued by problems in virtually every area. Do not recommend. Better than Logitech but that isn't saying much.
  • 0

#36 BraveSirRobin

BraveSirRobin
  • Member
  • Posts: 6356
  • LocationHackistan

Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:01

I can understand not liking the feel, but having problems is definitely a surprise to me. If mine ever die I would not hesitate to replace them with CH.
  • 0

The toughest part of my job is dealing with incompetent clowns who think they're good at their job.

Free Plank!

 


#37 =MFC=Gunloon

=MFC=Gunloon
  • Posts: 1101

Posted 11 May 2011 - 04:40

I've been a fan of both CH and Saitek.

In my healthier days I acquired a CH yoke and a set of their Pro pedals. Both worked perfectly and are very sturdily built. The only thing I needed to do was apply a bit of Vaseline to the yoke's shaft (yes, the sophomoric are already sniggering, I know) to ease any binding where the few spots of microscopic imperfections in the moving plastic parts meet. You want to use so little that it just gets into the surface and shows no residue, like oiling a firearm. More than that is asking for the Vaseline to migrate around and end up where it shouldn't.

That's a common everyday fix I learned about years ago on forums discussing flight input devices. I used the same method on the plastic spring retaining disc on my Saitek X-52 stick, though if I were doing it again I think I'd use white lithium grease instead…that stuff's amazing, pluss I suspect it would be even more effective and longer lasting that Vaseline.

This is all just a memory now; my new Saitek X-52 Pro uses a nicely machined metal retaining disc and needs nothing to improve its superb feel. Best stick I've ever owned, I see nothing out there that suits my needs as this one does, and its smoothness and precision still surprise me.

=MFC=Gunloon
  • 0

#38 LukeFF

LukeFF
  • Tester
  • Posts: 7853
  • LocationRedlands, California

Posted 11 May 2011 - 06:05

I also use CH all around. Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, and Pro Pedals. I've had them for 6 years. No problems.

Same here. No problems with mine at all. Heck, my Fighterstick survived a year in Iraq.

Technical issues with CH controllers are certainly in the minority. Whether one doesn't like them 'just because' is a totally different issue.
  • 0

#39 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 11 May 2011 - 13:50

I can understand not liking the feel, but having problems is definitely a surprise to me. If mine ever die I would not hesitate to replace them with CH.

66% of the CH Products I've had experience with (4/6) arrived defective in some manner, and my main stick had to be repeatedly shipped back and forth to California for yearly internal repairs.

The CH Yoke is the second least precise piece of simming equipment I've ever had the displeasure of handling. Only the Logitech Wingman Force Feedback was more imprecise. One of the three worst purchases of any sort that I've made in my life.

The CH Combat Stick is a pretty precise stick, when it's working properly. Long throw makes for good control, too, but since the stick is short (standard gaming joystick length), the long throw makes for uncomfortable wrist rotation. The stick is extremely uncomfortable in every area. Button placement is poor (I couldn't reach roughly half of the buttons without practically letting go of the stick), the two-way spring feels very dissimilar to a real aircraft's controls, the stick is shaped unergonomically, and the stick pads on the bottom are too few (four) and too small to prevent the joystick from sliding around on the desk. The potentiometers are cheap and start spiking about once a year (~2 hours a day average), and upon replacement the new potentiometers slide around a bit (even if glued into place), giving some unwanted play (and thus imprecision) at the center of the stick. Also, all axis have large (~half-inch) dead zones on the outer ends.

The CH Pro Pedals are averagely precise. Lacking, but acceptable, I suppose. The tracks have a sort of groove in them which makes them tend to stick a little bit, especially in the center. The result is that very fine motions away from center are pretty much impossible. The throw is good, but the pedals are far too close together for effective control. Real fighters pretty much always have pedals that are twice or three times as far apart, like the Saitek and Simped simming pedals. The CH Pro Pedals, like the Fighterstick and Combat Stick, lack an effective method of preventing sliding around on the floor from use. Also, the cord comes out the back, so if you're against a wall, not only does pressing the pedals against the wall (which will happen because of the sliding-on-the-floor issue, even if you don't want them against the wall, which I do want) potentially damage the cord, but it prevents them from staying straight. I had to modify mine to have the cord come out the side.

That's my moderately comprehensive review of CH.

Meanwhile, my Thrustmaster T-16000M was a just over a third of the price of my CH Combat Stick, has Hall effect sensors (no more spiking, and greater theoretical precision), has superior center precision, and is much more comfortable. The spring is much more natural feeling (no spring can replicate the feel of real aircraft controls, but this comes much closer than the CH), and although there are far fewer buttons on the stick, they are placed much more logically. The lack of a twist lock is annoying for a pedal user, but one can always use duct tape or something. There is less throw than the CH stick had, which is both a good and a bad thing. Less throw means less control (stall fighting is more difficult), but with a 6" joystick, it also means less painful wrist rotation. The joystick is light and so it still slides around on the desk unless you secure it with double-sided tape or something, but there are more pads on the bottom to increase friction.

I've also used a Saitek X-52. Not a bad stick but not a good one. The comfort is great, button placement is good, and the twist lock on the rudder is nice for us pedal users, and pretty much everything about the X-52 is good except for the precision. Center precision is mediocre at best. Not as bad as the Logitech sticks I've used or the CH Yoke, but many times worse than the CH Combat Stick and the T-16000M. Since precision is such a critical element, that turns a good stick into a "meh" stick. My daily gunnery stats in R.o.F. increased ~250% within one day of my switching from the X-52 to the Combat Stick.

The Logitech Wingman Force Feedback is the most appalling excuse for a simming control I've ever laid hands on. The center precision was so horrible. I estimate that my Thrustmaster T-16000M has somewhere between fifty and two hundred times the degree of center precision that the Logitech stick has.

I've handled a few other joysticks, but it was too many years ago and I wasn't using a simulator which required a great deal of precision, so I can't comment on the precision of these joysticks. I was happy with them at the time, but I might not be happy with them now if I tried to use them with R.o.F. or another reasonably realistic aerial combat simulator.

So, overall, my favorite joystick that I've used so far is the Thrustmaster T-16000M, which I enthusiastically recommend given its low standard price of ~$37 U.S. My second-favorite joystick would be the CH Combat Stick, which I very much do not recommend (in spite of my superior ability to stall fight when using it) for the reasons given earlier. And my third favorite stick would be the Saitek X-52, which I also do not recommend for the reasons given earlier.

I've only used one pair of simming pedals, the CH, so I don't know how they compare against Saitek and Simped for precision and durability. But I know for a fact that the CH and Logitech pedals are much too close together for a fighter, and the Saitek and Simped pedals are the proper distance apart for a fighter. Unfortunately, trying to buy Simpeds from the U.S.A. seems to be something of a nightmare.
  • 0

#40 LukeFF

LukeFF
  • Tester
  • Posts: 7853
  • LocationRedlands, California

Posted 11 May 2011 - 21:38

The CH Pro Pedals, like the Fighterstick and Combat Stick, lack an effective method of preventing sliding around on the floor from use.


The CH Pedals have rubber feet on them that will keep them right in place on a hard flat surface. You have to push them really hard to get them to slide around.

And again, I hate to say it, but your opinion on CH's build quality and ergonomics is very much in the minority. Otherwise, CH would not keep selling them successfully if the majority of users found them to be mechanically unreliable and ergonomically uncomfortable. Seven years I've had my CH controllers, and they've worked just fine. Many, many others will attest to the same sort of reliability.

Unfortunately, trying to buy Simpeds from the U.S.A. seems to be something of a nightmare.

Not at all, unless you find waiting a couple of weeks for them to arrive to be a nightmare. ;)
  • 0


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users