Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

TDM - The 14 Hour Offensive 1918


  • Please log in to reply
113 replies to this topic

#81 Miggins

Miggins
  • Posts: 3115

Posted 15 April 2011 - 21:41

I managed to get three DrI's with an N28 recently, so it can't be just the old hands getting in and flying them.
  • 0

#82 Tom-Cundall

Tom-Cundall
  • Posts: 5549

Posted 15 April 2011 - 21:43

Or you're a leg-end with the N28??
  • 0

#83 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 15 April 2011 - 22:21

Just asked around on TS, doesn't seem if anyone minds the removal of Camel and Dr.I :)

You could replace the Dr.I with the Pfalz D.IIIa (yea I know you just removed it :D, maybe revert your additions to the D.VIIFs since it will then be the best central fighter?) and the Camel can be replaced with the Triplane. I know it doesn't really fit in historically but it is a great match for the D.VIII and the other central planes and offers a bit of TnB capability.
  • 0

#84 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 15 April 2011 - 23:18

You could be right you know. When I ask why someone always takes camel they say because Dr1 on the other side, and vice versa. There are still those die hard fans though.

But really we want to be getting new players into ROF, and the camel/dr1 have the killer combination of being hard to fly but then unstoppable once you are experienced. Which is a killer for new players. Yes Miggins I know we can kill them unless the pilot is good that is :) But central for example if they haven't learnt the Dr1 or don't want to fly it the camel is very difficult for them and they can't even run from it.

So I'll do a no uber super plane version.
  • 0

#85 Miggins

Miggins
  • Posts: 3115

Posted 15 April 2011 - 23:19

Or you're a leg-end with the N28??

Highly unlikely TC :lol: , I was more intimating that there must be some new guys trying out the DrI, it is an iconic plane of the period, though it was a lot more or a rarity than we seem to have in RoF MP servers.
  • 0

#86 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 16 April 2011 - 00:15

Due to popular request, a new version to balance all the other planes against the Camel/Dr1s.

There are two versions, depending on whether you want to remove Camel/Dr1 completely, or simply slow down their flow into the combat:

1. Uber: Is WITH Camel and Dr1 at the back base. Back base means that the flow of camels/dr1 is slowed down and they have higher fuel levels, this is a good balance for the other planes.
2. Non-Uber: Without Camel/Dr1, but has Pfalz D3 and Tripe added instead. For servers with new players so they are not dominated by well-flown Uber planes.
  • 0

#87 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 16 April 2011 - 00:17

Hmmmm difficult :) I guess I will put in both missions into the rotation tomorrow morning. Thanks a lot for the quick changes!
  • 0

#88 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 16 April 2011 - 00:20

The choice is difficult? Yeah maybe try both and see what the feedback is.

The Camel lovers will of course be very vocal about it, that doesn't mean they are the majority though as it's the regulars who are on the forum as opposed to the newbies..

But either way, both options improve it in their own way.

ps just to clarify before I get comments - I'm not a camel hater :P But I have to agree with some outspoken central fliers that there is only one central plane that can stand up to it in an equal fight, and it makes missions a bit limited if people are forced into choosing only those two planes for competition reasons.
  • 0

#89 gavagai

gavagai
  • Posts: 15542

Posted 16 April 2011 - 04:23

That's why I like limiting them, Taipa. It makes all of the other aircraft far more attractive to fly, especially the N28, Dolphin, and Albatros.
  • 0

#90 BroadSide

BroadSide
  • Posts: 2057

Posted 16 April 2011 - 08:04

A lot of times the camels are gone, as the new players pile in and use them and die in them, then jump back in another.
Other times the base get's bombed and then it's a long wait till the base is replenished.

I think these two options are quite sufficient in spacing out camels.


It was fine the way it was.
  • 0

#91 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 16 April 2011 - 10:24

On the other hand I tend to fly the camel a lot now. I prefer to fly central most of the time but often enough, especially in this mission, central has more pilots, perhaps because many new pilots play it or because they like the DFW, or because central has always been more popular. So me and my squadron mates have to often fly entente to balance teams. This is nothing new of course and apparently some even thought we are actually a entente squadron ;)

Anyway the other day when I was flying a camel with 20-30% fuel and bombs flying straight to the fokker airfield I was fighting three Dr.Is and two D.VII straight above the aerodrome for several minutes and the only thing that brought me down was the AAA. And there is a multitude of camel pilots that I can think of that is better than me.
Many new pilots fly the Dr.I (miggins mentioned it) and many new pilots also fly the camel. While usually the camel and Dr.I can be about equal there is just no competition if people new to it fly it. So if you fly a camel and there is no Dr.I pilot to threaten you, you are basically invincible. Yet the temptation for me personally to fly a camel just to fly it as a ground attack plane (I always take bombs) is too big not to fly it when it is available.

The Dr.I on the other hand is not that useful because it is too slow to catch S.E.5a and Spads at altitude but Camels are not too slow to catch the other German planes. THe other day, an Albatros tried to climb away from me. I had 20-30% fuel again and bombs on and I still caught him eventually at 2-3km altitude. Felt really cheap too :(


Maybe I am just weird like that, yesterday I realised I was complaining on TS about an enemy making a mistake.
  • 0

#92 Tom-Cundall

Tom-Cundall
  • Posts: 5549

Posted 16 April 2011 - 10:46

Imp - you spent a lot of yesterday complaining about the DXII as well! :)
  • 0

#93 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 16 April 2011 - 10:50

:D

It's just not fun if you have S.E.5a above you when you take off, unable to reach them only to get attacked and run down by, yes, a camel. ;)
  • 0

#94 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 16 April 2011 - 11:30

Yeah the balloons do draw a crowd over the bases. Forgot to mention the other thing is I've lowered them to 1400m instead of 2000m so it's easier to climb and reach balloon shooters who transition into base perching. There is extra MG now too so if you get into trouble on takeoff get back down to your base and try again at the back base.
  • 0

#95 DidNotFinish

DidNotFinish
  • Posts: 4454

Posted 16 April 2011 - 14:45

Wow, I love this server. I flew an HP from Vadelaincourt over Verdun and across the front. On the way another HP joined me. I shot off a flare to show him I saw him and he shot a flare out in front of me in return. We didn't meet any trouble on the way however once we got to the enemy's side and my target airfield was in sight. (I wanted to bomb a Central airfield because all of the Entente airfields were destroyed besides Vadelaincourt). I lined up my target at about 1000 feet but a flight of Albatri D5a's and Fokker DVIIFs jumped us. My wingman broke formation and I never saw him again. I continued one for a few minutes toward the enemy airfield but I caught several bullets and was heavily wounded and couldn't see well enough to stay on course. With one more burst of the enemy's MGs I was dead and my beat up HP flew on under its own control. On the way down, it hit something at about 300 feet, it was a plane but I have no idea what it was. I took the belly turret position so I couldn't see it. Next thing I know, the HP ploughed into the trees.

8-)

AWESOME!
  • 0

#96 gavagai

gavagai
  • Posts: 15542

Posted 16 April 2011 - 14:57

I liked the balloons being up high. It actually gets some of the fighting out of the weeds.

Anyway, the best way to clear out the perchers is to use the rear airfield and come in above 2km. Easy as cake.
  • 0

#97 Tom-Cundall

Tom-Cundall
  • Posts: 5549

Posted 16 April 2011 - 15:26

You got my by the balloons on Thursday night I think Gav.
  • 0

#98 DidNotFinish

DidNotFinish
  • Posts: 4454

Posted 16 April 2011 - 15:31

I also followed a DVII in a SE5 for a good ten minutes at 6 oclock low. I finally gained on him and put a few bursts into him and he caught fire and fell from what I'd say was 7 or 8000 feet. :x
  • 0

#99 BroadSide

BroadSide
  • Posts: 2057

Posted 16 April 2011 - 17:34

One of the main things I do is bomb in this mission (with the camel). Maybe that's why I'm always down low and getting jumped by high Central pilots. Generally I'm outnumbered and have an alt. disadvantage. It's fun though, and I like playing vs. those odds in a plane I enjoy flying.
Sad to see that option taken away….

The Hellequin's server has some odd things happening with this mission. It's sending out AI Spad and DXII planes with announcements "A SPad XIII has taken off" etc. However, it seems that there isnt as much bombing of the bases for either side now.

Also, I keep bombing that train station (both sides) and shooting up the train, but dont get the "train has been destroyed" message.
  • 0

#100 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 16 April 2011 - 20:28

Yep the balloons are still fairly high, just not 2km. Easy as pie for a patient guy like yourself Gav, but not everyone is the same :)

The best solution for perching would be for me to move the bases BEHIND the targets. But for this I need a skinnier section of the frontline. I have a spot scoped out on the river south of Metz, it has a trainline and a river on both sides for symmetrical targets. The whole spot is perfect. However I don't know yet because people tend to like Verdun? There is no eye candy there but I could always make some fake towns or something.

Broadside we will have the Breguet in the mission soon, that will provide superior ground attack for the Entente. On top of this we have the SPAD and SE5a also able to carry bombs on the Entente where central doesn't have any fighters capable of carrying bombs. So there's plenty of bombing capability there if that's what you're worried about.

If there are lots who really don't get enough hours in the camel/dr1 on other maps, and really want to fly it, I suggest HQ load the option 1 mission. Camels/Dr1 will still be there for the diehard fans, just with a longer respawn flight time to level the playing field for those in Albatros or N28s. HQ Squad has a lot of masochists who enjoy the pain of flying the N28 it seems!

SPAD and DXII are replacements for the ai 2 seaters because the 32bit guys were getting ROF exes, nothing I can do about this unless we exclude those guys which is not good. There were some other changes to reduce the memory as well like no more artillery.

So - if everything is stable maybe we add back the two-seaters later. But for now, the SPAD/DXII give people some AI action especially when no one is around and a fighter pilot wants a game. I know in my timezone often every server says 1/52 players only and I'm stuck.

For the train station - the station is the target not the train. The train is there as a sweetener. I think when the HP came out, no longer can we destroy such buildings easily with the tiny bombs that the fighters carry. So you may see one building burn - but you gotta do alot more damage than that. Try it in a HP you'll see it works.

If you are a fighter-bomber, your role is to destroy the tanks, AAA, and even the barge. But not the station or the factories. You can destroy buildings if you really want to but you'll need a flight of 2-4 as it takes a lot of cooper bombs to do that damage.
  • 0

#101 gavagai

gavagai
  • Posts: 15542

Posted 16 April 2011 - 21:42

SPAD and DXII are replacements for the ai 2 seaters because the 32bit guys were getting ROF exes, nothing I can do about this unless we exclude those guys which is not good. There were some other changes to reduce the memory as well like no more artillery.

As soon as I lowered my textures to medium I no longer had any .exe errors in your mission (XP).
  • 0

#102 BroadSide

BroadSide
  • Posts: 2057

Posted 16 April 2011 - 23:51

Broadside we will have the Breguet in the mission soon, that will provide superior ground attack for the Entente. On top of this we have the SPAD and SE5a also able to carry bombs on the Entente where central doesn't have any fighters capable of carrying bombs. So there's plenty of bombing capability there if that's what you're worried about.

If there are lots who really don't get enough hours in the camel/dr1 on other maps, and really want to fly it, I suggest HQ load the option 1 mission. Camels/Dr1 will still be there for the diehard fans, just with a longer respawn flight time to level the playing field for those in Albatros or N28s. HQ Squad has a lot of masochists who enjoy the pain of flying the N28 it seems!

I dont care much for either the Spad or the SE5a (just FYI, both these planes are almost unstoppable when flown correctly…far more powerful than the camel. Only a few fly the spad, and so no one really gets excited over it, but it's clearly the best fighter of the war), and so I dont fly them.

Pushing the camel back to the far base means that jumping in for "quick" action, doesnt work either.

I fly at times when few are online as well, but often I'll jump in an empty server, start bombing stuff, and others join in. Even if they dont, there's some great bombing, and anti bombing work to do on my own.

IMO, you've taken away what made this mission so great. :cry:



Thanks for the answers on the other issues.
  • 0

#103 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 16 April 2011 - 23:55

I restarted the server again, now 1.24 is running, both versions with and without camel. If you fly the camel for the bombs there still is the Dolphin and the S.E.5a :)
  • 0

#104 BroadSide

BroadSide
  • Posts: 2057

Posted 17 April 2011 - 00:15

No, I dont fly the camel just for the bombs :) Just cause it does it all! (and it's the most fun to fly)

Dont care much for the SE5a, especially when you have to be low for bombing, as you have very few options if you are engaged, and the Dolphin is a coffin (IMO only *slightly* better than the DH2).
I stopped by your server, only pilot was on the Central side. So, sadly, not worth flying.
  • 0

#105 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 17 April 2011 - 00:20

I dont care much for either the Spad or the SE5a (just FYI, both these planes are almost unstoppable when flown correctly…far more powerful than the camel. Only a few fly the spad, and so no one really gets excited over it, but it's clearly the best fighter of the war), and so I dont fly them.

Pushing the camel back to the far base means that jumping in for "quick" action, doesnt work either.

I fly at times when few are online as well, but often I'll jump in an empty server, start bombing stuff, and others join in. Even if they dont, there's some great bombing, and anti bombing work to do on my own.

Thanks for the answers on the other issues.

So you don't fly the SPAD/SE5a because it's too good and "far more powerful than the camel"? In the war maybe, but this is a game and in this game we can be exploded from 700m while extending, and D7f's can be run down by Camels while extending. A few jinks by the D7f and the Camel can actually gain if he flies straight. If a D7f bounces you and then extends, do you let him get away from your camel because he would have escaped in the war? Or do you run him down with 600m shots? I know what I see other camel pilots do.

How about some duels me in Camel and you in the SE5a to confirm the superiority of these planes? Or in your time zone drop into Josh Echo's server he'll help you test this theory as well.

IMO, you've taken away what made this mission so great. :cry:

The camel is what made the mission so great?

If you've ever played the tank paralysers mission, that's where the back base is. It's not actually far it's only a 5 minute flight. If you take enough fuel with you, there is no need to spawn in again for a long time anyway.

The fact is - there's a few players but I've seen one in particular take the camel from the front base, rack up 20 kills in an hour of the newbies flying albatros/pfalz d12, and he has 20 kills and all the other players have 1 kill and maybe 4-5 deaths. Although you say you get bounced etc - it's still possible to do this. There needs to be mission balance even if you think the Camel is not a good plane.

I understand people have favourites, so will try to include but I don't want to keep seeing newbies writing in the chat that it's so hard to come to Hellequins server from the Newbie server because good players are flying the Dr1 or Camel and "they seem untouchable".

Look I like to debate it's fun, but it's kind of pointless anyway since I'm making a new mission which WILL have your camel, and it will be at the back base - BUT the back base is going to be much closer that should satisfy everyone. The camel has the ability to rack up kills faster than any plane bar the Dr1, so I don't see the problem of an extra 4 minutes flight time.
  • 0

#106 ImPeRaToR

ImPeRaToR
  • Posts: 7902

Posted 17 April 2011 - 00:25

Exactly Taipan :) It is great to see newbies have a look at "full real" multiplayer, even if the distances are not that long. Turning them away by letting Camel and Dr.I monsters loose on them is not the right thing to do.

And I have to admit I have shot down the same newbie 2-3 times, not on purpose but the Camel is simply that superior.

Same goes for the Dr.I if you let it lose on some S.E.5a or Camels. Although the Camels might flat-spin into the ground before the Dr.I can shoot them down :?

It's just not the same elite FF crowd that is flying here, it is a mix of all of them.


Speaking of FF, it used to be a great place to unwind, to get away from the serious and intense ROF MP. Pointless slaughtering where everyone charged into the melee eager to die. Not anymore :(
  • 0

#107 hq_Jorri

hq_Jorri
  • Posts: 14143

Posted 17 April 2011 - 00:44

Cheers, Taipan.
  • 0

#108 BroadSide

BroadSide
  • Posts: 2057

Posted 17 April 2011 - 00:49

Firstly, Taipan, I'm not disparaging your mission. I think you've done great work. These later iterations arent as much fun (in my opinion, now, which is worth very little). That said, I'll respond to your comments, but dont want to get into a debate here.

I dont care much for either the Spad or the SE5a

So you don't fly the SPAD/SE5a because it's too good and "far more powerful than the camel"?

That's not what I said. The first six words of my statement show why I dont fly the Spad or SE5a much.


How about some duels me in Camel and you in the SE5a to confirm the superiority of these planes? Or in your time zone drop into Josh Echo's server he'll help you test this theory as well.

I dont spend much time flying these two planes, so that would prove very little. Try flying vs. Squirrel or some of the other spad monsters out there.
If you go into Fast Food server, and fly either of these two planes with altitude, you'll not have much competition.

IMO, you've taken away what made this mission so great. :cry:

The camel is what made the mission so great?

Again, that's not what I said. In context, the mission was great because of the frequent bombers from both sides (ai), the multitude of bombing targets, and the closeness of the bases to the quick action. When you created this mission you stated that you wanted it to be good for the people who wanted to just fly for a quick mission, as well as for those who wanted a longer mission. I think you accomplished that in your earlier builds of the mission.
Taking out the AI bombers (which I understand the reasoning with), moving the camels to the back, or out of the mission entirely, all (again, please note that I prefaced my statements with IMO) In My Opinion takes what made this mission so great.



The fact is - there's a few players but I've seen one in particular take the camel from the front base, rack up 20 kills in an hour of the newbies flying albatros/pfalz d12, and he has 20 kills and all the other players have 1 kill and maybe 4-5 deaths. Although you say you get bounced etc - it's still possible to do this. There needs to be mission balance even if you think the Camel is not a good plane.

I havent seen this happen, but I usually only fly late at night, or saturday in the afternoon.
I understand the need for balance here, though.


I understand people have favourites, so will try to include but I don't want to keep seeing newbies writing in the chat that it's so hard to come to Hellequins server from the Newbie server because good players are flying the Dr1 or Camel and "they seem untouchable".

I dont like seeing newbies get stuffed time and again either.
I think a good fix is to have different time periods for this mission. The premise is fantastic, with quick fun and dependable targets, regardless of the number of pilots flying.
An early years plane set, a middle years plane set, and a late years plane set would be good. I likely wont fly in them, but others may like them. I enjoy the middle to late war planes, and with the little bit of time I have to fly these days, I'm not willing to spend time flying a plane that isnt fun for me. So I'm not going to fly the E3, the DH2, the Spad, the alb, the dolphin, the d12, etc.
Others may enjoy flying them though, and that's great.

Let's not get bogged down in a FM debate, which I'm sure there's someone just ITCHING to jump in here and post his 2 cents. I wont comment on your missions anymore, unless you want to talk in pm.
  • 0

#109 hq_Jorri

hq_Jorri
  • Posts: 14143

Posted 17 April 2011 - 01:04

An early years plane set, a middle years plane set, and a late years plane set would be good.

I think that's a very good idea. However, it would bring some other problems with it that would need quite a lot of work, but would ultimately make a great set of three missions. A lot more variation, some fun for people who don't like Camel vs Dr1, some fun for people who prefer Camel vs Dr1, and some fun for people who like early war planes as well.

For example:

No bombs for the Entente in the early mission, so tanks and strategic bombing targets would need to be replaced by soft targets (like transport columns) - and enough of them to keep the mission fun.

But some more things could be done to make a 3 mission set interesting:

Early mission: winter 1916/1917. Planeset up to and including the Triplane, with the E.III, D.II, D.III and DFW). Winter textures, and Verdun is intact. Strategic targets in Verdun to bomb for the DFW and soft targets for the Entente. AI DFW flying around, but no AI entente plane.

Mid mission:
Summer 1917. Camel + SE5a (and some other planes around the same time like Triplane or Spad) versus Dr1 + Albatrosses + Pfalz DIIIa (standing in for PDIII). Verdun is being targeted by artillery and slowly shot to pieces. Summer textures. Factories, bridges and more stuff like that to bomb. AI Breguet and DFW flying around if possible.

Late mission:
The late planes, and no Camel and no Dr1. Summer textures, or autumn when they are released. Verdun is totally destroyed at the start of the mission. Strategic targets to bomb, but not birdges and factories since they are already down. Stuff like a tank depot or something?

I guess it would be too much work and perhaps they will not all draw as many players but I thought I would just throw it out there anyway :D
  • 0

#110 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 17 April 2011 - 01:19

Broadside I know and love the SPAD, but I know it can't outclass the enemy like the Camel can. Last year I spent a month exclusively with the camel to first learn it and the limts, and also to see what all the fuss was about. I kind of flew it like a SPAD staying above the enemy and it's got enough power to do this, but then I could turn with them to finish them off
:)

But yeah I agree no FM debates.

I know the Camel/Dr1 are fun and challenging, so they're going into the next mission just not as close (but not as far as now either), I might even fly them from time to time hey

FYI there was no AI bombers - your bases were being destroyed were by skilled human bomber pilots only! Cheeky buggers hey.

The AI were just flying a recon circuit which triggered the artillery.

Jorri - we could do that with the early war just being like the first 1-2 hours, then the planeset cycling up to a new era etc. It will be easier with the expanded planeset we will get later this year :P

Also it will be better with new flight models especially for 1917, and for the Albatros, N17, N28, and the Pup.. hmm must not talk about flight models :oops:
  • 0

#111 gavagai

gavagai
  • Posts: 15542

Posted 17 April 2011 - 02:04

But yeah I agree no FM debates.

None is needed because we all know and admit what everyone knows and admits.
  • 0

#112 Tom-Cundall

Tom-Cundall
  • Posts: 5549

Posted 17 April 2011 - 07:25

The N28 is a God if the Camel is at the rear.

(In the kingdom of the blind the one-eyed man is king)
  • 0

#113 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 18 April 2011 - 02:02

New mission here: TDM - The 12 Hour War 1916-1918

update: new mission on hold, want to do more changes before release. But I'm taking a holiday so after easter
:P
  • 0

#114 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 19 April 2011 - 21:32

1.25 changes:
-reduced frontbase bombers to a maximum of 10 per side, i.e. 5 DFW & 5 Gotha vs 10 HP
-upgraded MGs at bases to normal to slow down suicide low alt airbase attacks
-rear base MGs AND AAA are now high, so the prospect of losing all 3 airbases is now much harder
  • 0


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users