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TDM - The 14 Hour Offensive 1918


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#41 O_Taipan

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 09:43

Sounds like unbalanced sides skillwise, could put more AAA but people hate AAA deaths, and the flak guns are terribly awful shoulder shooters :)
Need to limit the objects for performance so can't add anymore.

Help the new guys out tell them how to fly high and take enough fuel to last.
Managing the planes in the hangar is a tactical element for teamwork too.

Also check the balloon plane position reports before choosing spawn point.
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#42 Armincles

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 11:06

Taipan great work!
I will visit your server on a regular basis! :x :S!:
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#43 hq_Neca

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 13:27

Thanks guys, I'll try to keep it lower than 50%
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#44 EricForster

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 14:31

For reference I flew this mission for a few hours with about 20 people on the server, running 22% baseline graphics memory load on an unsupported graphics card (Nvidia 8600 in a MacBook Pro) and had zero warping, crashing, or frame rate issues. I flew the DFW with a human gunner.

Cheers,
Eric
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#45 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 14:37

One of the suggestions made by my squad mates was to spawn more tanks but with bigger time intervals to make the tank attacks more urgent and more of an event. SPS is at 49.9-50 the whole time so I guess there is room for a bit more AI :)


edit: btw, seems like your mission is the bomb, there are people playing on our server around the clock, even in the morning hours there is 10 people or so. almost 20 now :D
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#46 MattM

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 16:13

Hey Taipan. First of all, great mission. I like the idea of having stuff happen all over the map, so you always have something to do.

But i have some suggestions (talking about the close-base mission now):

I now it's kind of the point of the "close" base, but i think the close bases are just a bit too close to the frontline and they are too close together. Would probably work better if there would be some space between them.

The tank-attacks are great, but maybe you could pump that up a little. I think 5-10 tanks should work, maybe with a slightly longer respawn time. They are a bit too easy to counter with planes that have bombs.

There were quite a few buildings around outside the mission area (last time i checked, maybe you fixed that already), which need ressources, which could be spend better on more ground and AI air units.

There's a positions in the middle of no-mans-land with two balloons next to each other. Seems like those balloons are there to "mark" a dog-fight area. I think that's not really necessary. It's an open map, no need to have people gather around one spot (not that many people like to do that anyway).

Ever thought about different planesets? Maybe a earlier variant would work, like from 1916 to 1917 with rotating planesets (so after one hour, one sides gets a new planetype or something like that).

AAA seems to be a bit strong, i would set them to low AI level, if you didn't do so already.
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#47 BroadSide

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 16:51

Taipan–Yeah, I was watching the radar for about 5 minutes waiting for the camel :)
No need for more AA. It's just right, or still too many around the map (gotta have them at the airfields). I died 2 times to AA yesterday (with at least 2 more VERY near misses), in an hour. Which is too much already IMO.

I think the plane fields are in just the right spots. I like the fields close to the lines, as I want immediate action if possible.

Yes, the two balloons next to each other in nml are odd…one allied, one german. I'd prefer to just see one, or have them further apart (at least a bit…they are super close, which is very unrealistic).

As for more tanks…I think the number is fine as it is now. There's always something to do.

Planesets are good (except a few less dolphins, and a few more camels :d ).

If you were going to add something, how about more trains, more often? How far apart is the train appearance now?
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#48 SYN_Kollwitz

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 17:42

put 1.20 (groundstart) up in rotation on the intermediate server,

thx again for all the work put into it Taipan! S!

Cheers,
SYN_Kollwitz
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#49 O_Taipan

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 00:09

One of the suggestions made by my squad mates was to spawn more tanks but with bigger time intervals to make the tank attacks more urgent and more of an event. SPS is at 49.9-50 the whole time so I guess there is room for a bit more AI :)


edit: btw, seems like your mission is the bomb, there are people playing on our server around the clock, even in the morning hours there is 10 people or so. almost 20 now :D

Cool, that SPS means server is good :)

But some clients aren't so good, so best to limit things as they are to keep it stable and within their 32bit 2GB memory limit.

Good to see yeah I came in for a game last night, flew a bit of everything on the central side, variety keeps it fun
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#50 O_Taipan

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 00:34

For the tanks it seems people have different opinions :)

Once they are dead, more immediately start coming in from the other side - so you can hunt them as they head from the enemy base into the mud and get them on the way. One side they come out of Verdun, other side they come out of the forest behind an airbase.

Hi Matt, I think you had tried the earlier version. All those extra buildings are gone now in this version. Tanks we have 6 of them each side, they split up halfway and 3 attack each airbase. If not all of them make it, it's due to the recon spotting them for artillery. If the recon is killed, more tanks make it over. But I don't want to add much more while some people have limited memory and 32bit issues.

AAA is on low level, with only one flak and one MG at each airbase. It also often gets killed by tanks or bombs. Respawns in 30 minutes. In the middle of the front there is none, so the only risk is over the bases or the boat. I think the basic level of AAA is needed because vulching and hovering over the bases i've seen a few times.

Broadside - trains respawn every 20 minutes, one each side. Blow the train station you can get the train at the same time. There's enough camels I think, when I tried central yesterday every second plane I fought was a camel. I don't want it to be another camel/dr1 only map it should be for all planes. Maybe we should add the Tripe? As the 20 dolphins/N28s won't get used..

For close bases, the Verdun base is a real base but yeah I'd prefer them further back. However even as they are there were still a few people who couldn't find a fight, and I think the closeness is what draws people in especially the dogfighting guys.
Having the two close together is also good, because you can takeoff from one and meet up with the guys at the second or cover each other from vulchers.

For the two balloons yeah you're right probably not needed, it does mean more fights over the bases but that's exciting I find to takeoff and scramble.

For the planesets, that's a very good idea 1916-1918 moving through the years/planesets over the day. Limited at the moment by the two seaters available, but if we throw history out the window could do it? Will think about this for the future.. one big problem I see with this though. There are people who only want to fly camel or dr1, some don't like early war etc. I love early war but when I'm playing on Syndicate sometimes it switches to early war and I see people exit, then afterwards i look at the fast food players list and there they are. The other thing is that demo users and new people don't own early war yet. So to keep with the goal of bringing everyone together into the one mission for a while, I might leave it as it is for now and look into it again when MP is busier.

So in summary I'll make these changes:
-remove two balloons from centre
-changed allied planes:
15 Sopwith Triplane
15 Dolphin
10 n28
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#51 Wolfstrike

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 03:33

Taipan,try a day or two with rotating yr plane sets to see if the closer feel will hold the players.I think its such a good setup that it will…
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#52 BroadSide

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 08:32

I hope it stays just as it is…
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#53 hq_Reflected

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 08:38

Taipan, I tried this mission yesterday and it was awesome!
What I like the msot about it is that it's so complex and completely 3 dimensional:
You can strafe gronud targets, attack strafing planes, of fly high to intercept bombers, or fly a bomber if you want, escort them, etc…

I had great fun, well done, mate! :S!:
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#54 O_Taipan

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 13:42

Great to hear, it's kind of like a ROF playground!

Yeah I'll leave the bases/planes as they are but add Sopwith Tripes so Turn n Burn guys have something if camels run out. Early war the distances may be loo large for some, plus it's bringing lots of new players out of the newbie server into regular mp who don't own those.

At the moment its been too bomber focused I think, someone managed to destroy two airbases in a single pass with the Gotha bombs!! It should be a little bit harder for the bombers, they need a challenge. At the moment some of the best dogfighters are only getting half the score of bombers.

I think I will reduce airstart height for bombers to 1000m instead of 2000m as there is no chance to defend airbases from repeated attacks even if you see the bombers coming. I know - I fly the bombers too.

And I will fix that pfalz base for ground starts, it's too bumpy.
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#55 O_Taipan

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 15:02

I couldn't resist tweaking some more. New version attached on first page.

Change log:
-Added Sopwith Tripe to French base so all 4 bases now have both TnB or BnZ choice.
-Reduced even more buildings that weren't near target areas = save more memory
-Reduced train carriages less memory use
-Added target destruction message for friendly side as well
-Fixed train and station respawn
-Removed two no mans land balloons (centre point balloons)
-Shifted bumpy Pfalz base, now the D12 is easier to takeoff
-Bomber airstarts now 1000m so bases are defendable now, bombers have to use some tactics or climb more before charging
-Recons circuit is now tighter, easier to find and more action
-Balloon radius slight increase to find action

:S!:
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#56 Riemann73

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 16:40

Your missions are really artpieces
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#57 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 22:44

Updated to 1.21. It seems you forgot to update the groundstart version so I took the liberty to change the airstart one accordingly. I have changed the DFW to ground start too because it climbs quite well.

In 1.20 people have reported that they did not see any tanks, I only saw a few entente ones sitting at the german base but no German tanks, maybe they were getting killed on spawn by the entente ones?
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#58 O_Steviant

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 23:17

No I had a German tank at the forward (southern) airbase as I landed my HP. My front and rear gunners fired at him for some time, then when I respawned he was gone.
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#59 O_Taipan

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 23:29

Ahh sorry I attached the wrong file.. then just now I went to remove the bad file and the delete button is sort of between the two so I've accidentally deleted the air start from the post! Will upload both again when I get home.

You'll be ok with what you've got though thanks. Ground start for DFW is a good idea, it does also suit lower level attacks with all those small bombs.
Also DFW starting on the ground can defend the base from tanks alot better.

For the tanks - they take a long time to cross the front. If you spawn at the pfalz base right when the mission starts, you should fly over them as they are heading to the lines. If you spawn at the camel base, they come from your left and will cross in front of your airfield before heading across the lines.

3 tanks go for each enemy airfield. Arty can kill them and is activated by recons, but it usually only gets one or two as Arty is not so accurate. Also now people know of them, if they are seen people grab bombs straight away.

They will respawn almost immediately, but on the other side of the lines.

Steviant - maybe your gunner killed the tank. There is about a 1 second delay before they explode, he may have exploded between your spawns.
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#60 O_Taipan

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 07:45

OK there we go - first post updated with proper mission files.
Ground start has DFW on the ground.
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#61 gavagai

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 01:05

The best thing about this map is that it runs for 14 hours. Thank you Taipa. I can't emphasize enough how frustrating it is to have maps constantly rotating in multiplayer, which always means more time sitting on my ass doing nothing…or worse, spending 15 minutes to reach combat only to have the mission end.

I only got to fly it a little bit today, but what I saw seemed very good.
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#62 charlo

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Posted 01 April 2011 - 01:40

The best thing about this map is that it runs for 14 hours. Thank you Taipa. I can't emphasize enough how frustrating it is to have maps constantly rotating in multiplayer, which always means more time sitting on my ass doing nothing…or worse, spending 15 minutes to reach combat only to have the mission end.

Not only that, but so often when a mission ends, we lose MP flyers who figure they might as well get that bite to eat, etc., and quit ROF for the evening.

I find that I (and I imagine others, too) hang around longer in an MP mission that doesn't end for hours.

Charlo
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#63 EricForster

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 00:40

So tonight I was doing very well in the DFW, until 30 minutes into my final flight, a guy named "Fodder" jumped into my back seat. With no bandits in sight, he looked around for a few seconds, aimed his gun at the back of my head, and killed me. He then rode the DFW all the way down, shooting randomly.

Recommend Fodder be banned from the server, if that's possible.

Cheers,
Eric
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#64 =MFC=Gunloon

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:04

Another fine mission, I like it even better than the Tank Paralysers! Well done, and thank you, Taipan!

=MFC=Gunloon
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#65 O_Steviant

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 01:13

So tonight I was doing very well in the DFW, until 30 minutes into my final flight, a guy named "Fodder" jumped into my back seat. With no bandits in sight, he looked around for a few seconds, aimed his gun at the back of my head, and killed me. He then rode the DFW all the way down, shooting randomly.

Recommend Fodder be banned from the server, if that's possible.

Cheers,
Eric

Hi Eric,
Had that happen myself a few times in the Handley Page. The trick is to lock gun positions (hit Esc then "manage crew positions"). Then when people want to join your plane they have to ask and its up to you whether you let them or not. I agree, its a very nasty trick and people should be discouraged from doing it, but banning might be a bit harsh when we are trying to get people to join. It could have been an accident. Keep flying, hope to see you in the skies sometime soon.
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#66 BroadSide

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 05:27

O-Taipan–
Your mission reminds me of the spectacular work Fuby did back in the ToW days with co-op missions.
It's a masterpiece. So fun to fly, even if only one other pilot is in the server.

Just FYI, when I destroy the central train, there is no announcement that it has been destroyed. I've done it a few times now, but it never announces anything, unlike the barge which says that it was destroyed and will be back in 20 minutes.

Thanks for the FANTASTIC mission!
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#67 J2_Adam

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 05:54

Yeah, fun stuff, Taipan.
S
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#68 O_Taipan

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 06:10

Thanks Guys
A shame there are some dodgy back seaters, this happened to me and another guy on there too. It turned out he was a demo user and being silly. Good thing is we can see new people coming into ROF. Only thing we can do is lock the gunner positions until someone asks. Maybe the join window for gunners should show the locked planes, so people can ask to jump in.

Broadside - the train station is the target and will give the message. The train is just a sweetener :) Poor trains people love to blow them up!
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#69 hq_Peter_Zvan

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 08:55

Hehe - blew that train up yesterday as well. Ignored the house in the initial attack, ran out of bombs to take it out than.
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#70 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 12:25

02:33:18 Fodder (TurretDFWC_1) - wounded pilot » Eric Forster (DFW C.V)
02:33:18 Fodder (TurretDFWC_1) - wounded pilot » Eric Forster (DFW C.V)
02:33:18 Fodder (TurretDFWC_1) - damage aircraft » Eric Forster (DFW C.V)
02:33:18 Fodder (TurretDFWC_1) - damage aircraft » Eric Forster (DFW C.V)
02:33:18 Fodder (TurretDFWC_1) - wounded pilot » Eric Forster (DFW C.V)
02:33:18 Fodder (TurretDFWC_1) - damage aircraft » Eric Forster (DFW C.V)
02:33:18 Fodder (TurretDFWC_1) - wounded pilot » Eric Forster (DFW C.V)
02:33:18 Fodder (TurretDFWC_1) - destroyed aircraft » Eric Forster (DFW C.V)
02:33:18 Fodder (TurretDFWC_1) - kill pilot » Eric Forster (DFW C.V)
:(

He doesn't seem to be a demo user because it looks like he actually flew the Gotha himself so he must own it, and demo users can't buy planes afaik.

http://riseofflight....r=fodder#scroll" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://riseofflight....en/community/le … der#scroll

Do you still want me to ban him Eric?
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#71 Ody

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 12:51

LOVE this map and server…..gives you time to do want you want..gain alt BEFORE you get bounced, LOL!
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#72 O_Taipan

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 13:15

Yes BAN his ass, that kind of behavior is not what we want to encourage for anyone flying bombers
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#73 gavagai

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 13:55

The whole system of joining aircraft is fubar. Only a trusting child would make open-seats the default setting.
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#74 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 14:42

Found a few more offenders that I witnessed myself last friday, banning them for a week as a start.

We don't want some sort of witch hunt but please report any incidents of deliberate team killing either here, in our server thread Les Hellequins Dedicated Server or via PM. Thank you :)
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#75 EricForster

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 17:51

Do you still want me to ban him Eric?

Yes please, unfortunately. Seeing it in the log is sort of a real bummer.

At any rate, I think you had mentioned a week? That's fine with me.

Thanks (to others) for advice on locking the turret: I had no idea this was even an option.

Cheers,
Eric
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#76 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 18:02

Maybe in future it is better not to ask for bans in public but via PM (or on our forums) in case there is a mistake so no harm is done to somebodies reputation, however bans should probably still be announced publicly so people know why and if they were banned, possibly discouraging teamkilling.

Though I suppose the average teamkiller doesn't really visit these forums anyway ;)


edit: something else, was the score still working when you guys flew on it and what time was that in UTC?
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#77 O_Taipan

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 02:20

Updated to help some with errors due to memory. Removed some planes to make the planeset smaller and less memory plus other changes.

Full change log:
-Removed Dolphin
-Removed Tripe
-Removed D7
-Removed PD3
-New Fokker base location
-2 more base MGs for vulching prevention
-replaced recons with fighters for less ROF.exe errors
-moved AI to front bases for quicker action
-added more D7f to make up for lack of Pfalz D3a, and rebalanced the planeset
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#78 gavagai

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 12:15

Updated to help some with errors due to memory. Removed some planes to make the planeset smaller and less memory plus other changes.

Full change log:
-Removed Camel
-Removed Tripe
-Removed Dr1
-Removed PD3
-New Fokker base location
-2 more base MGs for vulching prevention
-replaced recons with fighters for less ROF.exe errors
-moved AI to front bases for quicker action
-added more D7f to make up for lack of Pfalz D3a, and rebalanced the planeset

Fixed. :S!:
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#79 O_Taipan

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 21:36

Well it would be a more fun map in my opinion to do that too as they do dominate the other planes.. and I rarely fly them and they sometimes get in the way.. but some people have their love so it has to be for everyone Gav :lol:

However given the amount of new players on there (who don't fly the camel/dr1 as it's difficult), it may be worth thinking about? I've seen camel/dr1s rape some of the newbies..

Or we could always put them only at the back base, to slow down the flow of them into the combat - and to ensure they take more fuel for the flight?

I'm going to get some strong responses to this I'm sure!
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#80 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 21:40

Or we could always put them only at the back base, to slow down the flow of them into the combat - and to ensure they take more fuel for the flight?

I'm going to get some strong responses to this I'm sure!

I like this idea although having said that I'm easy meat for anyone in any plane!

Can you bomb the back base to take the Camels out?

If not then leave them as is and at least you can level the base to remove them for 20 minutes!
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