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Schusta 27 (GER) Squadron History


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#1 Han

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 17:57

Hello friends. Please assist in writing ENGLISH text of history of the squadron which will be available to player in the first release of the New Career.
It should contains more than 2500 symbols (no upper limit), and it should describe WHOLE history of the squadron - from fundation till it's history end (amy be even till modern days, like for USAF 94th Aero Squadron for example).
Any additional facts and remarks are appreciated.

So please discuss and post your texts here for Schusta 27 German squadron

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#2 LukeFF

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 20:43

Information on Schusta 27 seems pretty thin, at least on the Internet. I found this little snippet:

http://www.theaerodr...8192-post2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theaerodr...8192-post2.html

Jasta 12 moved on 12 Apr 1917 from 1.Army airfield Epinoy to the 6.Army. Jasta 12 was then based at Roucourt airfield. The other two reconnaissance/artillery-units were bayer.FA 45 and FA(A) 263. These three units were components of Gruppe A (XIV.Reserve-Korps) under Grufl 4. The entire Korps left from 1.Army to 6.Army.

Two weeks earlier, between 31 Mar 1917 and 7 Apr 1917 another two Fliegerabteilungen came as reinforcements for AOK 6 from 1.Army. These were FA(A) 258 and bayer.FA 48.

At the same time 2.Army sent FA(A) 266, FA 40 and bayer. Schusta 24. Another protection-flight, bayer.Schusta 27 came from 5.Army.

Jasta 33 moved from their airfield at Bühl within Armee-Abteilung A on 11.April to join 6.Army at the airfield at Villers-au-Tertre.

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#3 Der.Mo

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 23:18

Originally SchuSta(Schutzstaffel)27b was put together on 13th July 1916 as Kasta 36b (b=bavarian). With the big re-organisation of the Luftstreitkräfte in 1916 it was re-named to Schusta 27b on 1st January 1917. On 22. Februar 1917 Obltn.Sigmund Kreitmair became the new leader of the Schusta 27b, he was later appointed to Commander of the entire bavarian Schlasta Group B in August 1918. Schusta 27b then again was renamed into Schlasta(Schlachtstaffel)27b on 27tn March 1918 .
Schusta 27b used a black chevron as their unit marking, this was later changed into white tail.
It participated in the major battles of WW1. Verdun, Arras, Flanders, Cambrai and Operation Michael in 1918 are just some of them, flying AEG C.IV, Albatros C.VII and Halberstadt CL.II two-seaters and served ´till end of war.

Sorry, That´s all I know of Schusta27.Information about this Schutzstaffel is rare.
If anybody has additional info, please add!!
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#4 Han

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 19:49

:( Yep, it's not to much… But thanks even for that text! Looks like it's hard to find something more. Anyway, I'm keep this thread stickied, in hope that someone will be able to add some more history here.
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#5 JG1_Klaiber

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 16:17

Not sure how accurate this information is, but here is a website on Kogohl 6b. Prior to the 1 January 1917 reorganization, it appears as if it was the parent unit of what became Schusta 27.

http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/16889

For reference:

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/other-wwi-aviation/21274-kagohl-definition.html

Kasta = Kampfstaffel (6 planes normally)
Kagohl = Kampfgeschwader of the Oberste Heeres Leiting
Normally 6 kasta's in a Kagohl.

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#6 JG1_Klaiber

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 16:20

There's this too:

http://forum.valka.c...asta-27/t/16859" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://forum.valka.c...ewtopic.php/tit … 27/t/16859
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#7 JG1_Klaiber

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 16:26

http://www.frontflieger.de/2-su27.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.frontflieger.de/2-su27.html

And this.
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#8 Han

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 21:58

Who may compile these sources and existing DerMo's text to a full text?
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#9 Wolf_Schultz

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 22:15

Schusta 27b information, courtesy of the book Schlacht-Flieger! and rearranged by me.

Schusta 27b was formed from Kasta 36 on January 1st, 1917 at Mont airfield in the 5th Army sector near Verdun. Shortly after it began escorting operations for FA(A) 252w at Higny-Preutin and later Puxieux airfields along the 5th Army sector. On April 6th the unit was moved to the 6th Army sector against the British to escort FA(A) 224w aircraft and operating out of Bellincamps airfield. Here they remained until June 10th before being transferred to the 4th Army to escort several different squadrons.

Schusta 27b retained this vigil until the Battle of Cambrai erupted in late November 1917, when they were transferred to Bertry in the 2nd Army sector on November 23rd, 1917. On December 8th the unit moved to Villers-au-Terte in the 6th Army and remained there despite the field coming under 17th Army control on the first of February. With this army, Schusta 27b saw the start of the Spring Offensive in March 1918 and the change of its designation to Schlasta 27b on March 27th, 1918. Indeed, the unit served out the remainder of the war with 17th Army except for a short four day stint with 2nd Army starting on August 8th.

Schusta 27b would claim three confirmed and one unconfirmed aircraft destroyed for a loss of six killed and three wounded (one in error by a Fokker DVII) with several more injured or killed in accidents. The unit operated a myriad of aircraft during its service including the: Roland CII, Albatros CV, Albatros CVI, Albatros CVII, D.F.W. CV, A.E.G. CIV, L.V.G. CIV, L.V.G. CV, Rumpler CV, Hannover CLII, and Halberstadt CLII. It commenced operations with the Albatros C types and Roland CII. The unit markings originally were a black chevron pointing towards the front of the aircraft on its fuselage sides along with a numeral either in front or aft of this chevron (though typically aft). In late 1917 the chevron was changed to white, roughly during the time of transition to the CL type aircraft.


It should be noted that they did not have white tails, that was Schusta 24b. Also, they were specifically formed on January 1st 1917, not July 1916. Any history prior to January 1st would be part of Kasta 36's history.


Also, I didn't know where to put this, but I received the newest Cross and Cockade International Journal (Spring 2011, Vol 42/1) and on page 42.026 there is an excellent article on German contact patrols. They have charts and whatnot of the signals used to cooperate between infantry and aircraft. I just wanted to point it out if you were unaware and interested in the material.
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#10 Han

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 21:13

That is great compillation. i'm think that it is maximum what is possible to find on S27. Thank you!
Aslo, about Journal - yes, it will be cool to have a digital scan/photo copy of it!
You may mail it directly to rof@777studios.net
Or upload to any file exchage site and post me a link via PM.

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#11 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 18:33

Schusta 27b information, courtesy of the book Schlacht-Flieger! and rearranged by me.

Schusta 27b was formed from Kasta 36 on January 1st, 1917 at Mont airfield in the 5th Army sector near Verdun. Shortly after it began escorting operations for FA(A) 252w at Higny-Preutin and later Puxieux airfields along the 5th Army sector. On April 6th the unit was moved to the 6th Army sector against the British to escort FA(A) 224w aircraft and operating out of Bellincamps airfield. Here they remained until June 10th before being transferred to the 4th Army to escort several different squadrons.

Schusta 27b retained this vigil until the Battle of Cambrai erupted in late November 1917, when they were transferred to Bertry in the 2nd Army sector on November 23rd, 1917. On December 8th the unit moved to Villers-au-Terte in the 6th Army and remained there despite the field coming under 17th Army control on the first of February. With this army, Schusta 27b saw the start of the Spring Offensive in March 1918 and the change of its designation to Schlasta 27b on March 27th, 1918. Indeed, the unit served out the remainder of the war with 17th Army except for a short four day stint with 2nd Army starting on August 8th.

Schusta 27b would claim three confirmed and one unconfirmed aircraft destroyed for a loss of six killed and three wounded (one in error by a Fokker DVII) with several more injured or killed in accidents. The unit operated a myriad of aircraft during its service including the: Roland CII, Albatros CV, Albatros CVI, Albatros CVII, D.F.W. CV, A.E.G. CIV, L.V.G. CIV, L.V.G. CV, Rumpler CV, Hannover CLII, and Halberstadt CLII. It commenced operations with the Albatros C types and Roland CII. The unit markings originally were a black chevron pointing towards the front of the aircraft on its fuselage sides along with a numeral either in front or aft of this chevron (though typically aft). In late 1917 the chevron was changed to white, roughly during the time of transition to the CL type aircraft.


It should be noted that they did not have white tails, that was Schusta 24b. Also, they were specifically formed on January 1st 1917, not July 1916. Any history prior to January 1st would be part of Kasta 36's history.


Also, I didn't know where to put this, but I received the newest Cross and Cockade International Journal (Spring 2011, Vol 42/1) and on page 42.026 there is an excellent article on German contact patrols. They have charts and whatnot of the signals used to cooperate between infantry and aircraft. I just wanted to point it out if you were unaware and interested in the material.

Do you know if Schusta 27b had any tail markings? I am asking because Schlasta 27b Halberstadt Cl.II are depicted with black and white stripes on the tail plane so I am wondering if Schusta had those as well or if they only had the chevrons on their fuselages or perhaps they had different tail markings?
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#12 Wolf_Schultz

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 04:55

Ok, your post spurred me to check the records again.

Short answer: yes.

Long answer: The photographs and color plates provided in the book didn't show them, but in the text of the color schemes section it mentions it in one line. Apparently beyond the mentioned schemes of my last post, in December 1917 the rudder and rear fuselage of their planes (though only shown on a Hannover CL) were painted white as well (and notably the nose on this Hannover was Bavarian blue). However, some time in March the unit began painting a white/black/white band on their fuselage(as seen here http://img294.images...halbdesktop.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://img294.images...halbdesktop.jpg).

However, some time during this period they also apparently had black and white stripped stab's (though the painting I linked, incorrectly, doesn't show this…unless of course it was only on the top side). So, apparently at around the time of the Spring Offensive their color scheme shifted. Hope that helps.
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#13 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 11:19

Thank you for your quick response. Just to be sure for most of 1917 (January till November) the unit markings were just the black and then white chevrons? I want to make a generic skin for the DFW C.V so atm I am just asking for the period where they did not fly Cl-class planes yet.

Sorry han for highjacking your thread :oops:


edit: here is my current attempt:

Image


edit2: btw, I know what you mean with the stripes, this cover art shows them nicely:
Image



I suppose this was a transitional thing then. Black chevrons, then white. Eventually they painted their tails white and after a while painted black stripes on top of the already white tail plane.

Does the book mention those white stripes on the wings?
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#14 Wolf_Schultz

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 18:28

Was going to describe Schusta 27b's DFW scheme, but I figured a picture is better still.

http://img837.images...199/img188v.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://img837.images...199/img188v.jpg


I am not sure if the coloring is exactly right, but the rear part of the fuselage and tail seem to be either a light brown or doped fabric color. The fact that this particular DFW is from May 1917 might suggest it is a brown and green daube that the Germans liked in 1916 and early 1917.

As for the white stripes on top of the wings, I don't recall them mentioning it. I just checked the book and the pictures of that actual Halberstadt can not confirm it. They are very famous photos of the plane being loaded up (a groundcrewman handing the observer some bombs or grenades), but the glare on the wing makes even the lozenge unrecognizable. It is possible, but I am not reading any evidence of it.
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#15 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 27 March 2011 - 18:44

Ah yes thank you, that's brilliant :) I did not know pictures and profiles existed of Schusta 27b DFW C.V.

I know that scheme, it was a DFW scheme from early 1917, spanning from the 3rd to 4th production batch. The 3rd batch was still delivered with the ear radiators but the radiator was changed on the fourth batch.
I will overhaul the skin tomorrow, it will basically look like these, except with different squadron markings and full white fields around the crosses :)

Image

Image
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