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Fast Food Dogfight server


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#41 O_Taipan

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 14:11

I fly on the Fast Food because of the Dr.1 and the Camel. Sometimes i just need brainless shooting in tight turning planes with no thinking about tactic or whatsoever. Great step that not both planes re on both sides and that player names not get displayed anymore. But it was wrong to take out the Dr.1 and Camel. I mostly fly Handely Page in these missions because they are so boring or unbalanced.

That's the worst thing I ever heard :lol:
They are not completely removed it's just that a couple out of the 6 missions don't have them.

Most of us have too many hours in those two planes, it's not getting value from ROF to ignore the other 18 planes.

Because my favourite planes are inferior and not suited at all to on the deck twirly fights at air spawn points I've been almost much excluded from MP lately given that this is what MP has become. Having a break from camels for a while lets me enjoy the D8 even if it's still outclassed by the Sopwith tripe and SE5a etc, same with Dr1s having a break from those lets us enjoy planes like the fragile Dolphin.

You guys still get to enjoy your camel/dr1 but no need to exclude the rest of us or leave us flying the inferior planes every single mission.
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#42 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 14:12

Just ignore him mate, he is nuts :lol:
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#43 Der_Sevtl

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 14:14

I agree with everything said here. The missions without Camels and Dr1s are brilliant and fun, although I have to fly Allies the most because there are much more people flying Central.
Flying the SE5a then is just cool. :D

One thing I would like to have added:
We have two heavy bombers and a two-seater to come out, that´s why it would be nice having some destroyable ground units on each side (factories, trains, tanks, cars, etc). Don´t know if that has been said already, though.
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#44 Josh_Echo

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 14:21

i can out-turn it in my sop-trip.

Fokker D.VIIF out-turns Sopwith Triplane easily. If you're out-turning D.VIIFs in your Tripe, they're doing it wrong. Don't make the horribly common mistake of confusing pilot ability with aircraft ability.

The D.VIIF is a very good plane but it has it's limitations, it can't follow a rolling S.E.5a so while it tries to follow an entente team mate has to shoot it down. You can't rely to win on your own all the time.

Bad argument. You're assuming a numerical inferiority. With equal numbers and similar skill pools, the Fokker D.VIIF wins.

Most of the people who say "Fokker D.VIIF isn't as good as you say" either don't fly the airplanes that are outclassed by it in a dogfight (which is everything except for the Sopwith Camel, Fokker Dr.I, and Sopwith Pup) and pretty much anything else as well except for a backstab or gank, or else don't know the aircraft well enough to know how they really compare when pushed to their limits.
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#45 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 17:36

It's true that the D.VII(f) more or less dominates the Entente if the Camel isn't in the picture, but that doesn't mean it's entirely unfair or should be removed. I actually enjoy fighting D.VII(f)'s in my SPAD because it's a challenge, and because when I shoot one down I know that I've really done something right.
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#46 Bilbo_Baggins

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 17:59

Fokker D.VIIF out-turns Sopwith Triplane easily. If you're out-turning D.VIIFs in your Tripe, they're doing it wrong. Don't make the horribly common mistake of confusing pilot ability with aircraft ability.

That may technically be true. But when they take out the camels and DR1's, people pile on to the Entente side and dominate with the Sopwith Tripes. I'm not on 24/7, but this is what I see happening.
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#47 =FB=Chapay

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 18:02

und wo kann ich sehen, Statistiken des Servers ?
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#48 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 18:22

Das ist eine gute Frage :)
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#49 O_Taipan

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 05:55

Fokker D.VIIF out-turns Sopwith Triplane easily. If you're out-turning D.VIIFs in your Tripe, they're doing it wrong. Don't make the horribly common mistake of confusing pilot ability with aircraft ability.

That may technically be true. But when they take out the camels and DR1's, people pile on to the Entente side and dominate with the Sopwith Tripes. I'm not on 24/7, but this is what I see happening.

I saw the opposite, PD3 and D7f beats the tripe plus everyone kept stacking onto Central.

I wouldn't mind if I had a chance to climb to altitude but being outnumbered they are right above entente when we spawn. Once I spawned right under a pfalz who then rammed and shot me within seconds :)

They can keep D7f its ok if we can use tactics just give us some room between the bases for sanitys sake so we can actually choose if we want to engage or not instead of being spawn rammed.
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#50 O_Taipan

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 05:58

The front base should be removed it's too close, the back base should be the new main base, and a further back one as an option if there's still vulchers.
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#51 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 10:47

Hmm taipan, might be a time zone thing. Just yesterday evening ~2300 CET entente won without stacking issues.
Se the scores:
Attached File  2011_3_2__21_20_17.png   692.3KB   561 downloads

I did not do too well but Peter made up for that I think :mrgreen:
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#52 O_Taipan

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 12:35

You sure it was the same map with no camels? If so congrats to Peter that's an excellent result with something like an SE5. Usually takes me a lot longer to kill that many in BnZ

If it was the camel map then that is why entente stacked, it swaps back once the camels are gone many people won't brave entente without a good TnB available.
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#53 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 13:20

Yea it was, it was the one on the verdun map without camel/pup/dr1 and he was flying the Tripe teh whole time. I switched a few times until I decided to just fuque it and flew a Nieuport 28 :D

If you have decent gunnery the Tripe is probably the best entente choise but if not you have a problem, which I did :)
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#54 gavagai

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 05:45

Well, I've finally spent a little bit of time on this server. One of the first things I noticed was that some people immediately try to land their plane the moment they're damaged, or even if they're simply at a disadvantage. Needless to say, I shot them as they tried to ditch their aircraft, and the whine was velvety smooth. :)

I prefer the maps without the Camel and Dr1. But most don't know what to do with the Entente aircraft when there is no Camel, i.e. the Spad13, SE5, and Tripe, while the CP still has the D.VIIF. It's a pity because the Spad13 and SE5 are a good match for the D.VIIF at low altitude, if the Entente pilots know what they're doing.

Maybe the D.VIIF should be treated the same as the Camel and Dr1?
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#55 ST_ami7b5

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 05:57

… One of the first things I noticed was that some people immediately try to land their plane the moment they're damaged,…

Well, I wasn't there, but what do you do when damaged? Wait till you crash? :?
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#56 Josh_Echo

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 06:44

I prefer the maps without the Camel and Dr1. But most don't know what to do with the Entente aircraft when there is no Camel, i.e. the Spad13, SE5, and Tripe, while the CP still has the D.VIIF. It's a pity because the Spad13 and SE5 are a good match for the D.VIIF at low altitude, if the Entente pilots know what they're doing.
Maybe the D.VIIF should be treated the same as the Camel and Dr1?

The only way that the D.VIIF won't dominate with even teams is if the Sopwith Camel is present. So, yes, I think that it ought to be removed whenever the Sopwith Camel, Fokker Dr.I, and Sopwith Pup are removed.
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#57 winger2

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 08:17

I prefer the maps without the Camel and Dr1. But most don't know what to do with the Entente aircraft when there is no Camel, i.e. the Spad13, SE5, and Tripe, while the CP still has the D.VIIF. It's a pity because the Spad13 and SE5 are a good match for the D.VIIF at low altitude, if the Entente pilots know what they're doing.
Maybe the D.VIIF should be treated the same as the Camel and Dr1?

And delete it? I wouldnt wonder about anything on all those servers. The DVIIF is the only plane that can keep up with spad and se5. Taking it out would mean give the advantage to allied side. That simple.
You can take it out but then you have to take out the Spad and se5 as well.
And giving the allied side the camel as compensation for the DVIIF is just stupid.

Winger
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#58 gavagai

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 10:55

… One of the first things I noticed was that some people immediately try to land their plane the moment they're damaged,…

Well, I wasn't there, but what do you do when damaged? Wait till you crash? :?
Unless I'm so wounded that I cannot see, I fight it out until I am "shot down" or dead. I never expect a free pass out of a fight, but nearly everyone will let you safely land after the kill has been awarded. So the survival rate for fighting is probably higher than the survival rate for ditching like a sissy, getting killed on the ground before you roll to a stop, and then whining about vulching over text.
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#59 gavagai

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:04

I prefer the maps without the Camel and Dr1. But most don't know what to do with the Entente aircraft when there is no Camel, i.e. the Spad13, SE5, and Tripe, while the CP still has the D.VIIF. It's a pity because the Spad13 and SE5 are a good match for the D.VIIF at low altitude, if the Entente pilots know what they're doing.
Maybe the D.VIIF should be treated the same as the Camel and Dr1?

The only way that the D.VIIF won't dominate with even teams is if the Sopwith Camel is present. So, yes, I think that it ought to be removed whenever the Sopwith Camel, Fokker Dr.I, and Sopwith Pup are removed.
The DVIIF won't dominate if the SE5 and Spad pilots have a clue, too, ie they don't try to fight like it's a duel to the finish.
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#60 ST_ami7b5

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:07

I don't want to argue with you Gav, but would you behave the same (fight until dead) if DiD (dead is dead) rule would apply so that after being killed all the stats would be erased?

No punch intended, just curious…

Edit: I try to behave as if in RL - I value my virtual life and try to preserve it.
Not being a coward of course…
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#61 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:09

Call me elitist for saying this but taking out the D.VIIF just because some non-europeans don't know how to fly entente is not really the right move if you ask me. Even without the Triplane a cobination of S.E.5a and Dolphin can do fine against them.
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#62 gavagai

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 13:57

I don't want to argue with you Gav, but would you behave the same (fight until dead) if DiD (dead is dead) rule would apply so that after being killed all the stats would be erased?

No punch intended, just curious…

Edit: I try to behave as if in RL - I value my virtual life and try to preserve it.
Not being a coward of course…

Probably. I'll fight duels with Josh Echo, knowing that I'm going to die, and I'll do it again and again. Stats are fun, but they have little to do with the kill tallies of a WW1 pilot. Just look at how different the combat circumstances are. Fast Food really does have more in common with a FPS than it does WW1 air combat.

However, if I notice that I have a kill streak of 20 or so built up flying Syndicate, then I'll see if I can extend it. It's fun for a while, but I sometimes feel relieved when I finally die so I can start experimenting with stuff that turns out to be a dumb idea 90% of the time.

But, again, my survival chances are higher trying to fight it out because when my engine finally dies, my opponent will most likely let me land. If I try to be clever and switch off my engine as a ruse, dive down and try to ditch, well then I should expect a bunch of lead in the back of my head. So fighting it out is not only more honorable, but it's also more survivable.

Call me elitist for saying this but taking out the D.VIIF just because some non-europeans don't know how to fly entente is not really the right move if you ask me. Even without the Triplane a cobination of S.E.5a and Dolphin can do fine against them.

This non-european has seen that combination on Syndicate and on the Hellequins server, and it stinks. The Spad 13 is so much more manly than those two, but it gets left out of the picture by all you anglophillic creeps. :P
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#63 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 14:01

I did not mention the Spad because the Dolphin and S.E.5a are more versatile in a low level slugfest imo but yes I should have mentioned it.

I made online kill #2 and 3 on the Spad so it has a special place in my heart :P


The "non-european" comment was just aimed at the time zones since when I fly those missions on FF during european prime time it was pretty balanced. Perhaps when it is unbalanced there are still europeans flying :)


About the Spad missing some times, one of the reasons is that if we have british planes it doesn't really fit into it since not that many british Spad squadrons were around.

And if you make a mission with french planes you have the Nieuport 11 and Nieuport 17… :)

If you use american planes you have the Nieuport 28… :)

Having the Spad 7 will be "epic"
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#64 Josh_Echo

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 20:29

The DVIIF is the only plane that can keep up with spad and se5. Taking it out would mean give the advantage to allied side. That simple.

Certainly not. Not on Fast Food, where it's all about crazy dogfights right at your spawn zones. The SPAD and S.E.5a are only technically superior (and then just barely) on missions where diving away to friendlies or flak is an option. And even then, that only works if you have a tactical advantage (I.E. you have more numbers than they do, or they aren't as skilled of pilots as you are, or they can't shoot worth beans).

On Fast Food, where you're in a dogfight seconds after spawning, the Fokker D.VIIF is effectively absolutely superior to all Entente aircraft except for the Sopwith Camel and Sopwith Pup. And the D.VIIF has a fair chance against the Pup if the former is flown right. Only the Camel is its bane.

And giving the allied side the camel as compensation for the DVIIF is just stupid.

Yep. If you're gonna give the Allies the Sopwith Camel, then you need to give the Germans the Fokker Dr.I to balance it out. I wasn't suggesting that the Camel is a fair match for the D.VIIF; it isn't. Camel is to D.VIIF what D.VIIF is to SPAD XIII and S.E.5a, more or less: technically, the faster airplane is superior, but in an actual fight, it doesn't work that way.

And that brings me to my next point: you sound like you're trying to have your cake and eat it as well. You claim that it's fair to include the Fokker D.VIIF because it's slower than the SPAD XIII, but then you claim that it isn't fair to include the Sopwith Camel even though it's slower than the Fokker D.VIIF? What?

The relationship of Sopwith Camel to Fokker D.VIIF is very similar to that between Fokker D.VIIF to SPAD XIII. The Sopwith Camel does pretty much everything better than the Fokker D.VIIF except for climb and speed. So while that makes the D.VIIF a technically superior fighter, because it can refuse to engage, that's all it can effectively do against the Sopwith Camel on even terms.

That same statement applies if you replace "Sopwith Camel" with "Fokker D.VIIF," "Fokker D.VIIF" with "SPAD XIII," and "climb" with "dive." So: the Fokker D.VIIF does pretty much everything better than the SPAD XIII except for climb and speed. So while that makes the SPAD XIII a technically superior fighter, because it can refuse to engage, that's all it can effectively do against the Fokker D.VIIF on even terms.

So you dismiss me when I cry about the SPAD XIII being raped by the Fokker D.VIIF, but then you turn around and cry about Fokker D.VIIF being raped by the Sopwith Camel. Why do you do this? I will answer: because the Fokker D.VIIF is a German airplane. I wish you'd be more objective, Winger. You're a damn good pilot and the most lethal gunner I've met, and you could add a lot to the knowledge pool of aircraft comparison. But you let nationalism get in the way.
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#65 Josh_Echo

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 20:38

The DVIIF won't dominate if the SE5 and Spad pilots have a clue, too, ie they don't try to fight like it's a duel to the finish.

Still does, at low altitude, where all the action is at on Fast Food. S.E.5a and SPAD both require a great energy advantage in order to dive away safely; if they try to extend while they're only at a slightly better energy state, the Fokker D.VIIF will get a nice long shot on them.

Hell, I've been flying the regular Fokker D.VII on Fast Food (I generally don't fly Fokker D.VIIF, as it's unfair to all of my Entente opponents who aren't flying Sopwith Camel or Sopwith Pup), and even with the poor D.VII I've been tearing apart all of the energy fighters when they try to disengage. It just doesn't work against a good gunner who knows how to fly his ship, unless you have a massive E advantage when you begin to disengage. Which means you can't spend that E trying to kill the other guy, and that limits you to only making kills when the other guy doesn't know that you're there, or is horribly outnumbered.

taking out the D.VIIF just because some non-europeans don't know how to fly entente is not really the right move if you ask me.

Come, now, Imp. Are you seriously implying that this non-European doesn't know how to fly Entente? I'm currently the highest-scoring SPAD XIII pilot in the world. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily the best, of course, because our scoring system is rather silly; but I think that anyone who's watched me fly the SPAD for a while will agree that I do know how to fly it.

Even without the Triplane a cobination of S.E.5a and Dolphin can do fine against them.

Only when the teams are stacked in numbers or skill. The Fokker D.VIIF is "much superior" (meaning, effectively faster and more maneuverable) than the Sopwith Triplane, the S.E.5a, and the Sopwith Dolphin. Oh, sure, like I said the S.E.5a is faster on paper, at low altitude, but it doesn't really matter much. A 1-M.P.H. speed advantage is insignificant in a dogfight, especially when that "faster" airplane also accelerates worse.
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#66 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 21:12

So basically you are unhappy your one-man-Spad-army has to be careful :)
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#67 Josh_Echo

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 21:26

I don't fly SPAD there, because it's completely outclassed by the Fokker D.VIIF. I'm unhappy with it because no one can competently fly SPAD or S.E.a there. Or, in fact, any Entente aircraft, if all other conditions are equal. The only way that anyone can be successful in an Entente aircraft against a Fokker D.VIIF is if other conditions are stacked in the favor of the Entente flier. And that, by definition, is not a fair planeset.

I write my own planesets for the best balance: I think to myself, "Would I feel comfortable flying on either side on this planeset, if the other team had an equal number and equivalent skill pool? Would that be true if there were only one person on each side? Would it be true if there were four people on each side?" Et cetera.

Currently, the answer to many of these questions that I use to ensure balance is "No," regarding the Fast Food planeset that has the dominating aircraft Sopwith Camel, Sopwith Pup, and Fokker Dr.I removed, but keeps the dominating aircraft Fokker D.VIIF. So the Germans have one dominating aircraft, and the Entente aircraft have none. And no, the S.E.5a and SPAD XIII are not dominating aircraft on Fast Food. They wouldn't be even if the Fokker D.VIIF were removed. The Pfalz D.IIIa and the Sopwith Triplane would be the most successful aircraft in the mission if the Fokker D.VIIF were removed.

MattM does a good job of keeping planesets balanced, but aside from his and my own, I haven't seen any planesets that keep a reasonable balance. They always seem to be written for the advantage for a certain group of people, or else written by people who don't fully understand how the aircraft compare to each other under various conditions. Well, technically, any close-range mission that has both Sopwith Camel and Fokker Dr.I is balanced, but that pretty much forces everyone to fly one of those aircraft.

So basically you are unhappy your one-man-Spad-army has to be careful

No, it isn't that "I have to be careful." It's that I have to be "careful" and the Fokker D.VIIF pilot doesn't, and "careful" here means "don't engage unless with advantages in numbers, skill pool, and energy." That isn't a fair match. But then, I suppose, most people aren't interested in a fair match. Guess I'll just try to avoid Fast Food. Or I could always take Fokker D.VIIF and rape everyone else until people get my point. Hmm! There's an idea. I'm getting a little tired of being the nice guy who loses out because he tries to be fair and not take the superplane.
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#68 ATAG_Bliss

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 22:37

Haha

Now noone besides you or Matt know how to make a balanced mission? One day I hope you get a job, move out of your parents basement, and wake up to reality.

There's many other people besides the airquake crowd that know full well what the planes in this game are capable of.

Get over yourself.
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#69 hq_Jorri

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 22:56

Haha

Now noone besides you or Matt know how to make a balanced mission? One day I hope you get a job, move out of your parents basement, and wake up to reality.

There's many other people besides the airquake crowd that know full well what the planes in this game are capable of.

Get over yourself.

You're such a nice person. You should stop embarrassing your squadron so much.

EDIT: Bliss you were not a part of this discussion. The only reason you join it is because you try to humiliate someone? I've been doing my best to improve relations with us lately and every time someone informs for a server to play on I give them good info on the SYN server, because it deserves that.

You just want to bash bash bash and think everyone is against you.

And you like to express this in personal attacks.

It's uncalled for.
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#70 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 01:07

Before somebody's ego derails this thread lets continue:

Josh, I was just pulling your leg a little. Of course the D.VIIF has a bit of an edge but Vaal probably has good reasons to keep it in, and it is his decision.

Before we have the BMW engines the Germans had to fight the Spads and S.E.5a with D.VII and Albatrosses, nobody was crying foul then :) Ok some people were and this is probably why we have the BMW engine in the first place. But whatever, see first sentence :D
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#71 Josh_Echo

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 02:42

Before we have the BMW engines the Germans had to fight the Spads and S.E.5a with D.VII and Albatrosses, nobody was crying foul then

I don't have any problem fighting a SPAD XIII or S.E.5a in a Fokker D.VII or Albatros D.Va. Even two-on-two, as long as there isn't a significant skill discrepancy. SPAD versus Albatros is a fairly even fight. The SPAD pilot has to work much harder than the Albatros pilot, but on the other hand he can dictate the beginning terms of the fight. The Albatros doesn't have to work as hard in the dogfight, but on the other hand he can't disengage. It rather balances out as long as the other conditions are are approximately equal.

I was eating up SPADs and S.E.5a's in my regular Fokker D.VII on Fast Food. Sure, that won't happen if they're "flying smart," but "smart" isn't how people fly on Fast Food. The few who try generally don't have the option, because all the action is at low altitude and often right at your spawn zone. I can understand why the Central fliers would be upset that they have nothing that can catch the SPAD XIII on a longer-ranged mission, but when the dogfight is all close-range stuff on the deck the SPAD and S.E.5a are not even close to dominant, even without D.VIIF to hunt them down and butcher them.

If you were able to statistically see which aircraft got the most points when flown by a competent pilot on the Fast Food mission where Camel, Pup, and Dr.I are removed, you'd find that the Fokker D.VIIF is the top, followed by Pfalz D.IIIa and Sopwith Triplane. Fokker D.VIII would be in third place, and then the rest would come after that and SPAD XIII would be roughly in last place.
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#72 gavagai

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 04:46

At sea level:

Camel: 190kph
DVIIF: 194kph
Spad: 220kph

Saying that those two matchups are comparable makes no sense. I love flying the Spad against the DVIIF. It's the only CP aircraft that's a worthy adversary.
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#73 O_Taipan

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 07:02

D7f is fine to stay I think my issue on the day was just a combination of these things:
* Too many central, new people really must stop joining the bigger side even if it has the best aircraft for the mission style
* Fight centered above our air spawn ie my impatience for not going to the ground start back base
* The friendlies I had were not so experienced, one was on our TS3
* Me being stupid trying to complete my kills against PD12 and D7f, once a turner arrives you can't run can't hide can't fight.

In short I should have been spawning at the back base and doing hit and run attacks only never fighting to completion and only claiming my first hit kills. A shame really because I win or survive against most central planes in 1 vs 1 BnZ except equal or better D7f but it sometimes takes too long,

Gav I agree Spad is fine I've done over 20 streak with it on this server but only bounces or empty times that guarantee 1v1 energy fight and with alt. As soon as there are many enemies and close spawn points life is always at risk. If an equal skil pilot dives in to help your opponent in a D7f or Pfalz you're screwed you know that. Hit and run only then and that means you don't get much fun fights or help your side to win much.

Keep D7f and make the back base air start please, plus AAA at back base to prevent campers.
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#74 ATAG_Bliss

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 08:28

Haha

Now noone besides you or Matt know how to make a balanced mission? One day I hope you get a job, move out of your parents basement, and wake up to reality.

There's many other people besides the airquake crowd that know full well what the planes in this game are capable of.

Get over yourself.

You're such a nice person. You should stop embarrassing your squadron so much.

EDIT: Bliss you were not a part of this discussion. The only reason you join it is because you try to humiliate someone? I've been doing my best to improve relations with us lately and every time someone informs for a server to play on I give them good info on the SYN server, because it deserves that.

You just want to bash bash bash and think everyone is against you.

And you like to express this in personal attacks.

It's uncalled for.

The only thing insulting was to say no one else besides Matt or Josh Echo makes a balanced mission. The things I said about Josh are true. I'm not worried about embarrassing anyone, and my squad is on the same level that I am on this issue.

But I'm not gonna sit here and have this constant banter hinting at our "unbalanced" or "conspiracy theory" type missions you think everyone else has. I suggest you re-read what your buddy said (the insulting parts) and then you can finally learn that I can easily return the favor of insults already given.

And I'm a very nice person. Anyone that actually knows me, already knows this. But remember, if you're going to insult us or me personally, expect to have it returned in full force. I do not stand for it and it's sad to keep hearing it from people like you.
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#75 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 05 March 2011 - 10:19

At sea level:

Camel: 190kph
DVIIF: 194kph
Spad: 220kph

Saying that those two matchups are comparable makes no sense.

Err no. That 194 K.P.H. figure is without afterburner. With afterburner, it's a few K.P.H. slower than the SPAD XIII on at sea level, and faster above about 1000 meters.

I love flying the Spad against the DVIIF. It's the only CP aircraft that's a worthy adversary.

You're fighting inexperienced pilots, then. I think this calls for some more test duels. [smile]

Keep D7f

K, that settles it—I will fly nothing but Fokker D.VIIF any time that I happen to be on Fast Food server while that mission is up. You made your bed, guys.
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#76 Chill31

Chill31
  • Posts: 1892

Posted 05 March 2011 - 10:53

The Fokker D7F is 208kmh at 0m with hohengas maxed out (doesnt include retained speed from a dive).
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#77 O_Taipan

O_Taipan
  • Posts: 2291

Posted 05 March 2011 - 11:01

Keep D7f

K, that settles it—I will fly nothing but Fokker D.VIIF any time that I happen to be on Fast Food server while that mission is up. You made your bed, guys.

You cut me off in your quote - I said I would put up with it only if bases were fixed. But hey I'm willing to join you I'll take D7f everytime now too. I have too few hours in it anyway compared to SPAD SE5 etc. It's only fair the usual central flyers give us a turn at central as well init :twisted:
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#78 Josh_Echo

Josh_Echo
  • Posts: 3931

Posted 05 March 2011 - 11:01

Thanks, Chill31.
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#79 =FB=Vaal

=FB=Vaal
  • Developer
  • Posts: 2850

Posted 05 March 2011 - 11:22

Josh, I was just pulling your leg a little. Of course the D.VIIF has a bit of an edge but Vaal probably has good reasons to keep it in, and it is his decision.
Reason, my opinion is that d7f not upset the balance.
If removed from the list d7f, it remains only pf3, maneuverable, but not speedy.
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#80 gavagai

gavagai
  • Posts: 15542

Posted 05 March 2011 - 15:11

Josh, using the altitude throttle at low level ruins the engine, and as Chill says, there's still 12kph between the D7F and the Spad.

Secondly, suggesting a duel must be a joke, because otherwise it would show a myopic and incorrect understanding of what air combat is about. Or do you think it would be interesting to watch me only engage you when I have an altitude advantage, and run away every time I do not?
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