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AAA "Activating and Deactivating"


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#1 King_Richard

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 07:08

I've read that too many ai can cause problems in multiplayer missions, inorder to reduce this effect I was wondering if the "checkzone" could help. Could we set an area for to activate AAA when an enemy plane enters and then it would deactivate itself when the enemy plane left the area? Would this allow more AAA in our online missions? Or, is there already a built in "bubble" for AAA and other ground units?

EDIT: or does the "proximity" trigger work here?

I've also considered the idea of setting timers on groups of AAA, this way only one group would be active at a time. For instance, we setup a timer linked from the mission begin for unit 1, they activate for 10 seconds then deactivate, now the deactivation triggers unit 2 to turn on and then when they turn off they trigger the next, etc… until our last unit triggers unit 1 and the process repeats. This way, not all of the ai will be searching throughout the entire mission.

I don't quite understand how to set it all up yet but I'm reading on it right now. I would like to have an active ground war going on. First, this would be interesting flying over our fronts and also give us more secondary objectives. Second, this would also somewhat deter you from flying low since the ground would be covered with AAA.
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#2 Flashy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:25

I am also busy playing with the ME and making a more active front with lots of AAA, so I have also wondered about turning them on and off when appropriate. I *think*, however, that once an entity is "linked", it is basically active for the whole mission. I am not 100% sure what the "Activate" and "Deactivate" MCU's do because they dont seem to "un-link" a linked entity as far as I can tell. Hopefully Vander or someone else who knows the ME better will clarify this, because I am not totally sure either..

EDIT: just thinking out loud here, but we also need the consider the performance impact of having lots of mission logic, such as using check-zones, proximity checkers, timers, etc. It might very well turn out that having 10 check-zones with associated logic to turn AAA objects on and off all the time uses more computing power than simply leaving those objects on!
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#3 King_Richard

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:16

I tried playing around with the "proximity" but it didn't keep the AAA off. I'm trying to stay within the limits mentioned here Recommended limits for a mission and it's stated that we can have up to 50 or so vehicles active at a time. If the AAA is spaced out enough and the clusters are linked together then maybe it'll allow for some good coverage. I'm only testing in singleplayer right now but will eventually set up a personnel server in ROF to test it out eventually. I did notice however that if we don't let you know where all of the AAA is on the map that it makes for some nice surprises.

I was wondering about having too much logic in the mission also, I really don't know the limits here either and still very new to the mission editor.
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#4 Flashy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:28

I think some MCU's can only TL other MCU's. So, for example, you might need to get the proximity MCU to activate an Activate or Deactivate MCU, which then OL to the actual AA units. You might also need a timer in between to give them all time to "think". Best bet is to build a small test mission where you just have a very basic test case for a specific behaviour you are trying to build. i.e. car drives into proximity MCU, proximity MCU TL to Activate MCU, Activate MCU TL to disabled AA unit (go into the > screen and un-check the Enabled check box after you have created the AA unit as a Linked entity) and see if that turns them on. They will need something to fire at obviously, so have an enemy plane start in air 400 meters above them.

If you read this thread: Why the strict limit on muliplayer objects? you can see that I have also been testing out just how much "life" we can build into a mission before bad things happen. What are your system specs btw? That will determine how much stuff you can have in a single player mission before you start getting slowdowns. MP is a different story though it seems…
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#5 SYN_Vander

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 09:31

Yes, this is possible.

Remember the limits are there because of memory limitations. But activating/deactivating objects is a good idea because it will save processing time.
If you deactivate objects (aircraft have the most impact) when a player is not near this will help when you use time acceleration. With all the objects turned on, you have hardly any acceleration, but with all the unnecessary objects turned off you can quickly go through waypoints using autopilot. This is useful in single player missions if you use realistic distances.
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#6 Flashy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 10:01

Yes, this is possible.

Remember the limits are there because of memory limitations. But activating/deactivating objects is a good idea because it will save processing time.
If you deactivate objects (aircraft have the most impact) when a player is not near this will help when you use time acceleration. With all the objects turned on, you have hardly any acceleration, but with all the unnecessary objects turned off you can quickly go through waypoints using autopilot. This is useful in single player missions if you use realistic distances.

And multiplayer? Can we deactivate AA units when there are no enemy fighters within a particular checkzone?
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#7 SYN_Vander

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 10:02

Yes, this is possible.

Remember the limits are there because of memory limitations. But activating/deactivating objects is a good idea because it will save processing time.
If you deactivate objects (aircraft have the most impact) when a player is not near this will help when you use time acceleration. With all the objects turned on, you have hardly any acceleration, but with all the unnecessary objects turned off you can quickly go through waypoints using autopilot. This is useful in single player missions if you use realistic distances.

And multiplayer? Can we deactivate AA units when there are no enemy fighters within a particular checkzone?

Not in TDM or CTF, player aircraft do not trigger checkzones in that mode.
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#8 Flashy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 10:13

Yes, this is possible.

Remember the limits are there because of memory limitations. But activating/deactivating objects is a good idea because it will save processing time.
If you deactivate objects (aircraft have the most impact) when a player is not near this will help when you use time acceleration. With all the objects turned on, you have hardly any acceleration, but with all the unnecessary objects turned off you can quickly go through waypoints using autopilot. This is useful in single player missions if you use realistic distances.

And multiplayer? Can we deactivate AA units when there are no enemy fighters within a particular checkzone?

Not in TDM or CTF, player aircraft do not trigger checkzones in that mode.

hmmm, thats odd. Are there any MCU's which player aircraft trigger? Proximity maybe?
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#9 King_Richard

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 10:28

Incase my system specs don't show up in my signature yet. (just updated it)
cpu:i7 920____________ram: ddr3 dominator (4g)
graphics:gtx260_sli_______mobo: asus p6t deluxe v2
hdd: raptor 300g 10k_____op sys: vista 64

I guess I'll stick with AAA as the only ground units then, and possibly just a few ai aircraft on patrols for when the mission doesn't have many human players in. Can always tie in some secondary objectives with static ground objects that link out to other events.
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#10 Flashy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:13

cool. I am going to play around with AI levels and see what difference that makes on performance. Its my hope that one low skill AI unit is much less demanding than and Ace skill one, and so maybe we can have lots of low skill AI units in a mission and still be fine.
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#11 King_Richard

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:32

I just got done doing something similar to adding a bunch of normal skilled ai and they weren't able to hit anything, while it added to the immersion of flak going off near you, that was all it did, I could easily fly through it. That was with 60 of them spread out over an area with clusters of 3 spaced out about 2500meters apart from the other clusters. I just changed them to ace and now if you fly under 6000ft(1800m roughly), then they start to spook you, any lower then that and your asking for trouble. Next, I'll try just one spaced out every 2500m instead of the clusters to see if one is still deadly enough.
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#12 Flashy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 11:50

Yeah, well flak was VERY ineffective in WW1 by most accounts. James Norman Hall did speak of some batteries that they had great respect for though because they were much more accurate than the rest, but the vast majority didnt come anywhere near to hitting anything. I think for our purposes, flak is just there for immersion and to allow us to spot enemies by the flak bursts.
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#13 O_WolfPac

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:06

If you had AAA all along the border and each gun or cluster of aaa guns was linked to a AI plane placed on a downward hillside or near trees so the AI plane will always crash on takeoff , the AI plane has a range of view for bandits and when it observes a bandit it will attack , if the AI is on the ground and told to stay there till a bandit is near and a checkzone is placed right infront of the AI plane can the checkzone be linked to activate AAA gun near by and if the AI plane crashes on takeoff de-activate the gun AAA in set amount of time or new AI plane respawns and spots a bandit again making aaa gun stay alive for longer.

AI can see human planes and checkzones i think only work on AI planes so would this solve the issue

I have a broken mission editor so i cant actually test this idea , sorry i cant test this so please read with huge pinch of salt :)

I hope you figure this out it sounds like some really good concept missions are starting to come to life

Good Luck!
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#14 King_Richard

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 12:59

flak was VERY ineffective

It probally was ineffective, but, now I don't know WWI strategies too well nor do I know what kind of aa guns they had, but where there's flak, there's usually other counter air weapons that go along with it. Flak just gives the cushion effect of "I'm warning you not to come down any further or else."

The problem I see currently is that there's no fear of cruising along at 3000ft or following your opponent down to the deck over enemy territory. When in reality, in a hot zone, I would assume a pilot would never even think of flying under 10k feet or so back in those days. Since we can't put a realistic number of machine guns, aa guns, and flak guns all into the mission, we have to settle for the "ace" setting to make up for the small numbers. I just flew around with one gun spaced out roughly 2500m apart from eachother and they're still effective down low, but not effective above 4,000ft or 1219m. I found that I still need to add another gun or two near the vital areas to make them a bit more effective though. Above 4k feet all the flak did is follow the plane.

The range on them is supposed to be 2500m, I believe I read that somewhere. If so then we could space out the guns closer to 5km and that should still somewhat deter you from flying low. This way I could beef up the hot spots a bit more without worrying about having too many ai.

EDIT: I also unchecked, vulnerable, engageable and limit ammo for the guns, perhaps this could help slightly also since it's a few less things to keep track of in the mission.
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#15 Flashy

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 14:01

You could definitely try that, and it would probably achieve the result you want (i.e keep people from going too low). In my testing I found that you need a group of 3 AAA guns in close proximity to give a feeling of being hammered by flak, and to produce enough flak to be visible from a distance. This is problematic though obviously because it reaches the object limit very quickly, so your idea is a good compromise. I must still try and see if AI skill makes a big difference to performance though - stay tuned!

@wolfpac - that is a good idea, but I fear that the AI plane would use as many resources as having the AAA guns active all the time, but it is a way of turning them off! Surely there must be a better way though? isnt there ANYTHING under MCU's which can recognize the presence of player aircraft? there must be something…
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#16 O_WolfPac

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 22:10

Ofcourse i dont know why its not been mentioned lol

FLAGS !! they see human planes

And if im correct you can change the object from a FLAGPOLE to a TANK OR AAA GUN

Set the range and Altitued
And deactivate and activate using the FLAG pole operation , im sure someone can explain how to change the object that is present i know Nakedsquirrel did a very cool map using the flagpole idea he replaced the pole with BALLOONS and you can see what balloons are active and need capturing .

So play with the flagpole it can activate multiple AAA Guns when a human is close by and deactivate on a timer if none are present.

:D

Hows that , i wish i could test this im very sure it will work !

Capture the flag might be one type of gameplay but if you use the item wisely it could be used for Multiplayer Campaigns.

Use CTF Mode

Can a FLAGPOLE be destroyed if it was changed to a Tank object ? or AAA gun ? Building?
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#17 King_Richard

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 04:11

Not a bad idea, I do wonder if we could place more ground ai units into a mission using this sort of logic. But, even if they are deactivated I wonder if they would still effect performance online since they are still in the mission. I'll test out your theory eventually, once I figure out some other things and finish up this mission. If I get something good with the current one then I'll take things a bit further with the next and maybe the flag idea can come into play.
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#18 O_WolfPac

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 06:44

Excellant
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#19 Flashy

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 06:47

Awesome idea wolfpac! that could work really well! I will try it when I get some more time with the ME, but that does sound like a plan.

BTW, I did a test yesterday with AAA on different skill levels. It seems the skill level of the AI has very little effect on performance. With 32 AAA on low skill firing at a two seater, I had 25-29% CPU usage and 600mb ram used by Rof.exe. With the same AAA on high skill, I had 27-30% CPU usage, so there really isnt much difference.

An interesting thing though, when I added 200 AAA on low skill, the CPU usage only went up to about 33%, but the game suffered slow-downs from all the flak bursts! I am not sure if that is my graphics card that is struggling, or if CPU usage is just not reported accurately.

I did finally manage to break my mission by adding 10 HP 400's, and 5 more 2 seaters, which resulted in massive slowdowns and an rof.exe. Even then though, CPU usage was only 40%. It seems the HP is a real performance killer, but that makes perfect sense because each one has 4 AI units. So it seems we might be able to squeeze in more AA on missions that dont use bombers..
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#20 O_WolfPac

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:07

In a different flight sim i setup Carriers with realistic flak , i did the very same test you have done :)

then i loaded the mission onto the gamearena server and let the public fly the mission , only to find that nearly everyone was upset that the flak was that thick and strong "they could WALK ! on the flak bursts , and FPS was nearly oil painting speed Per second :D

It seemed that when a AAA gun fires it sends out packets of information to all that are in range to see the shooting , now in my tests i was the only one flying like you have done , and yes i did AI planes aswell .
But when 20 or 30 people are within firing range all recieving the packets of information that the carriers or AAA guns are firing this will cause Lag , as it attempts to send out the information multiple times to multiple locations around the world.

So it might work for single player but in multiplayer do not get put off if the levels usable are much much lower then you find.

Saying all this i would love to see if DE-ACTIVATED AAA Guns have any effect when in large numbers and being turned to active only when the human crosses the range to activate using a Flag edited object.

If this has no effect then a DEFAULT MAP could be created with AAA guns setup double layered along the whole front like and some rear defence AAA guns aswell and the map makers can then build the missions we all fly on regular withing a PRE setup mission map, the AAA guns could be saved as a GROUP item and work independantly to the mission being created.

That was awkward to type but i hope you understood what i ment hehehe
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#21 SYN_Vander

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:19

Yes, this might work in multiplayer, CTF mode. Place a flag (or windsock!) near an "interesting" area, hide it in a building or something and when a player is within range you turn on the flak and let it rip!

But in multiplayer there are usually people flying all over the place at the same time, so chances are the area will always be 'activated'…
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#22 Flashy

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:47

In a different flight sim i setup Carriers with realistic flak , i did the very same test you have done :)

then i loaded the mission onto the gamearena server and let the public fly the mission , only to find that nearly everyone was upset that the flak was that thick and strong "they could WALK ! on the flak bursts , and FPS was nearly oil painting speed Per second :D

It seemed that when a AAA gun fires it sends out packets of information to all that are in range to see the shooting , now in my tests i was the only one flying like you have done , and yes i did AI planes aswell .
But when 20 or 30 people are within firing range all recieving the packets of information that the carriers or AAA guns are firing this will cause Lag , as it attempts to send out the information multiple times to multiple locations around the world.

So it might work for single player but in multiplayer do not get put off if the levels usable are much much lower then you find.

Saying all this i would love to see if DE-ACTIVATED AAA Guns have any effect when in large numbers and being turned to active only when the human crosses the range to activate using a Flag edited object.

If this has no effect then a DEFAULT MAP could be created with AAA guns setup double layered along the whole front like and some rear defence AAA guns aswell and the map makers can then build the missions we all fly on regular withing a PRE setup mission map, the AAA guns could be saved as a GROUP item and work independantly to the mission being created.

That was awkward to type but i hope you understood what i ment hehehe

hmm, you make a good point about flak bursts and AA guns increasing network traffic and increasing lag. I hadnt considered that! But presumably this shouldnt matter too much if the server and clients all have good internet connections? I can already see where this is heading though. I think if we really want to have realistic missions with an immersive front line, we are going to have to start posting system requirements on missions! "to play this mission you must have at least a core i5 @ 3.0Ghz, 6gb RAM and a internet connection capable of constant 4mb/s upload and download" :lol:

If this has no effect then a DEFAULT MAP could be created with AAA guns setup double layered along the whole front like and some rear defence AAA guns aswell and the map makers can then build the missions we all fly on regular withing a PRE setup mission map, the AAA guns could be saved as a GROUP item and work independantly to the mission being created.

That would be a very good idea! it could be like the two object templates - you just load it up, remove unnecessary areas and you are good to go!
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#23 King_Richard

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 09:28

If the flag works for deactivating objects/ai in multiplayer, then theoretically we could setup one large map with everything in it (not just aa, but army's, convoys, ai's, ect…) and simply play missions off of this giant map. It would take several mission builders to come up with multiple missions that would trigger a chain reaction resulting in an online dynamic campaign. I'm starting to feel a bit skeptical though, something isn't rite, I don't know what but I'm not sure ROF could handle something that large atm. I'm gonna have to give this a go sometime throughout this week. I guess the test could be to place several hundred AAA clusters linked to their own flags throughout the entire map and then give it a whirl. Actually, have to test one first to see if it works online. I don't know, my brain's justa clicking away right now so I'm not sure if this post makes any sense, lol.

But a dynamic campaign is possible, look at falcon, is it possible in ROF?
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#24 Flashy

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 09:53

I think that is a bit too ambitious King Richard :) I think we will be way over the recommended limits with just AA alone, even if we use flags to turn them on and off. But lets think this through: a mission usually takes place over 50km2, of which maybe 10km of front is actually used. That gives us 20km (10km for Entente and 10km for CP) to cover with AI, which actually isnt bad. If we put an 2 AA guns every kilometer, that is 20 guns per side = 40 guns. Not bad. Even doubling that should be fine (80 active guns in a mission is doable). If we then use flags to turn off batches (like every 2 km say) we could have maybe only half those guns active at any time if we assume (as Vander pointed out) that there will be pilots all over the place. So the AA situation seems doable, but I am not sure about anything else because even my conservative example above would be pushing the limits…
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#25 O_WolfPac

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:48

hmmm

possiblities can be endless
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#26 Flashy

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:56

hmmm HOW do you REPLACE the FLAGPOLE with a different object ? lets say a Barrage Balloon or Building, tank etc.

cant you change the model file? I am at work now so I cant check, but I think you can change the model file to use a different model.
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#27 O_WolfPac

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:01

Windsock works and is smaller and easier to HIDE in the trees and buildings Well Done Vanders :) thats much easier , and activates and de-activates but not sure HOW the object can be change to a building or tank etc…..
hmmm


just a thought :P

We need a hanger with a open door both sides of the building for Respawn mode , that would be fun
Imagine setting up a activator that allows respawn if you land ,taxi in a hanger, wait set time ,then it allows respawn hehehehe
If you didnt make it home to base you have to wait to respawn set timer and if you stuff up the landing or the taxi into the hanger is not correctly done hehehehe
Ok its just an idea …

Endless fun with one daft idea :D

Proximity
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#28 SYN_Vander

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 11:52

Windsock works and is smaller and easier to HIDE in the trees and buildings Well Done Vanders :) thats much easier , and activates and de-activates but not sure HOW the object can be change to a building or tank etc…..
hmmm


just a thought :P

We need a hanger with a open door both sides of the building for Respawn mode , that would be fun
Imagine setting up a activator that allows respawn if you land ,taxi in a hanger, wait set time ,then it allows respawn hehehehe
If you didnt make it home to base you have to wait to respawn set timer and if you stuff up the landing or the taxi into the hanger is not correctly done hehehehe
Ok its just an idea …

Endless fun with one daft idea :D

Proximity

Actually, I think Squirrel already made this. You could land, had to taxi to the windsock/flag and then a fresh plane would be available on that airfield. Will have the players care for their crate more!
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#29 O_WolfPac

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 12:25

Ohh i like that Vanders , that would be really nice concept to missions and makes nursing a hurt baby home and added bonus of tactical care

I still think its possible to change the the actual object from windsock or flagpole to something else , maybe im wrong on this it is very possible but just getting frustrated with my broken editor.

A hanger with two opendoors either side would be nice :)
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#30 Flashy

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 15:32

hmmm, okay i have been looking at this, but I am not sure how to make a flag "recognize" me or other player aircraft. I can tell it to count planes (not sure what that is for) but I presume I am interested in one of the Selected Object Menu events right? I have OnFlagBlocked and Unblocked, which I tried but they didnt seem to do anything, and then a whole bunch of OnFlagCaptured events, which also dont seem to do anything when I drive my plane near them. Anyone know how to make a flag "see me"?
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#31 O_WolfPac

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 22:02

O_Dingo was playing around with the windsock and flagpole items late last night , i will catch up with him and see what he learned.
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#32 NakedSquirrel

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 22:20

Sorry this doesn't really work gents. I worked on the windsock and flag for a couple of days during Christmas break. The flag does work, but it's a complicated series of target links and counter triggers if you want to count planes, plus if you're running a CTF map, you get the message "Flag has been captured by Central/Allies" You can do it with vehicles (which is how I did the flag for the hangar), but again you run into problems that you can't actually count the number of planes. It just doesn't work like a check-zone trigger, because you can't tell it what to count aside from 'vehicles or planes'.

Although that aside, you can't use a windsock It runs a different script and does not detect planes, so you are stuck with a 20m tall flag. You can't fit the ctf flag in even the biggest building in RoF, so there really isn't much point. I've tried applying the CTF-flag.txt file to other objects, but they turn into the CTF flag (or they give a drastic error and the game crashes) You also can't move the flag under ground or above the atmosphere, so there isn't any way around it that I could find. I asked Han if we can have an invisible flag, but they don't have the time to code it yet, they do plan on tweaking Check zone triggers in the future, but they are hard at work with the Gotha and Career mode, so probably not in the too near future.

The only way to hide a flag would be to put it far off of the map and give it a gigantic area to check for planes.

You have it count both flags and vehicles and you can then tell when there is an overwhelming number of enemy planes in the area. With that you could spawn an AI flight or up the number of AAA pieces for X minutes. *shrug* I haven't bothered because I don't know how much that would effect the server to count all those vehicles and planes constantly. I also don't think it would be very useful/effective.

I've tried using 'reports' to have AI say when they've attacked something, but it doesn't seem to work. Can anyone else get these reports to activate?

Right now, the only way to see if a player had entered an area in multi player is to wait for him to shoot down a balloon or bomb a city…

Although comically… I think you could make a trigger by putting a balloon 1 foot over an AAA battery, or maybe putting an AAA battery inside of a building. Since the AI doesn't care about friendly fire *He* will blow up the balloon and or himself, and then you know there is an enemy plane in the area. I might give that one a try…

Another note, I do like the idea of having group AAA, I think that's where the sim ought to go. Instead of having individual batteries or gun nests target 1 plane all on their own, have a large group roughly target 1 plane and just have them aim as a mass block. They can even have separate firing times to create the illusion they are aiming on their own.
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#33 King_Richard

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 23:06

So, the only way to trigger a spawner or activate/deactivate when a human player enters an area (in multiplayer) is if they decide to shoot at something and damage/kill it. Then we could add an on damaged/killed event that would trigger our AAA. But I've noticed alot of people aren't popping balloons anymore, since it's highly visible and they want to be sneaky.

This could work still for creating an artificial moving frontline. You give one side one objective to start with, destroy ballooons, factory whatever. When this is destroyed we could use it to deactivate/remove our current layout of AAA and other ground units along the frontlines and spawn in another defence posture further back. I like the idea of this and it could make for a small dynamic mission where each side would physically see progress on the map with moving airfields, either advancing or retreating. And instead of having the same objective's throughout the entire mission, it would be constantly changing. Add to this % chance of one thing happening and the mission would play out different every time.

But it would still be nice if checkzone/proximity zone would work with multiplayer.

Alright, so I won't get my large scale war going, but this could allow for a 100-200km battelfield.
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#34 Flashy

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 17:55

Woot! I say chaps, I think we have cracked it! see attached mission!

Right, so this is how it works: There is a AA gun hidden inside the farm house (thanks for the idea NakedSquirrel!) and he starts out "alive" and watching for enemy planes. When he see's one, he fires, damaging himself. This immediately sets off a counter which a.) activates all his buddies (other AA guns) b.) disables him c.) resets the counter and d.)activates a 2 minute timer which turns all his buddies off and turns him back on again after 2 minutes. That last step might seem weird,but i couldn't think of any way to determine if the enemy plane has been destroyed, so I just made it work on a 2 minute cycle. I have tested it and it works great. The only potential problem is that the AA gun in the farm house will probably eventually destroy himself, but I am not sure after how long. The mission is currently set so that he only fires one shot at a time,so it should take him quite a while before he kills himself.

The nice thing about this little group of AA is that they are a completely self-contained so you should just be able to copy-paste the whole thing over and over onto the front. It also only has one AA gun scanning when its not firing so it shouldnt be very resource heavy.

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Just because I can give multiple orgasms to the furniture just by sitting on it, doesn't mean that I'm not sick of this damn war: the blood, the noise, the endless poetry...


#35 SYN_Vander

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 18:14

Pretty ingenious Flashy! Will give it a try :)
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#36 King_Richard

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 23:50

Brilliant! I did a few modifications, changed them to the manpads and put one in a windmill. I'll make up some more clusters and save them as templates then I'll upload them.

What's a good mix, 3 flak guns and 2 lmg's, or should there be more lmg's then flak guns?

EDIT: nevermind, the lmg's are pretty much worthless unless the planes are really low.
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#37 King_Richard

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 00:47

Alright, I went with 4AAA flak guns. One is High skill along with the watcher, the rest are norm. Invulnerable, no ammo count, or delete, did this to save the mission from tracking these minor things. Made them invulnerable since they dissapear in 3 minutes, would be pissed to have one lined up then poof he's gone. I tried putting the watcher into a tent but he can shoot through the tent, talented bastard eh, so he's in a windmill, did that so there's less objects to load, but I also gave them gun shelters.

Flashy, you just opened up the door for more activity along the front lines, well done. Now watch, they'll make the checkzones or proximity triggers work in multiplayer with the next patch, lol. Attatched is the two templates to make my life easier, and might help out others.

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#38 NakedSquirrel

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 00:51

Yeah used windmil because it's smaller, I'll probably have to vary the different types of buildings it hides in. I wanted to use tents, but they are too small for the AAA gun.

Added a few things to the script. 1: connected a damage "repair" command to the AAA gun. 2: Made a chain link of activate/deactivate triggers with the AAA guns hiding in the buildings. Now when one activates, the others deactivate so that they do not spawn guns as well. When he comes back, they all come back. This way you can manage how many vehicles are active without overloading the server. This should be able to be easily interchanged with a Check Zone trigger Whenever they get around to fixing it. Going to have to give it a practical test to see how well it manages with a large number of players. It looks promising.

Here is a link with a chain of 5 hooked together. Still have to experiment with how close and how many objects to place near each other. Right now I have the MGs set for High AI skill and the AAA guns set for Low AI skill. It looks very intimidating when you fly low.

Also changed the time to 30 seconds. 3 minutes is way too long for a stationary ground object in a flight sim.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0ByrCF9M0tVLQYTkxOWZjOWUtNmFjYi00YTIwLWJjNmItYmFmZTBkOTg1ZjAx&hl=en
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#39 King_Richard

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 02:20

I don't know if I set up the damage command properly, would one of you's look at this layout for the AAA template and let me know if I got it right.

I'm not sure if 30 seconds is long enough for all the flak guns to line up and shoot, they take awhile to line up their shots when I was watching them earlier. 3 minutes is too long, maybe 45-60 seconds is the idea time? I'll have to time them when I go back into a mission. lol, never thought I would be timing how fast a gun shoots in a sim.

EDIT: I tried looking at yours NakedSquirrel but got confused with all of the triggers trying to track it down.

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#40 Flashy

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 06:30

Pretty ingenious Flashy! Will give it a try :)

Well it was actually NakedSquirrels idea, I just replaced the balloon with a house ;)

Flashy, you just opened up the door for more activity along the front lines, well done. Now watch, they'll make the checkzones or proximity triggers work in multiplayer with the next patch, lol.

well that would make things much easier :lol: Having to hide a AA guy in a house and get him to damage himself is pretty silly if you think about it, but it does work and it is pretty resource-friendly :) But a working checkzone in multiplayer would be better..

Added a few things to the script. 1: connected a damage "repair" command to the AAA gun.

I was going to ask you how to do that! I saw that you had done that in one of your other vintage missions and it makes perfect sense here to repair the watcher.


2: Made a chain link of activate/deactivate triggers with the AAA guns hiding in the buildings. Now when one activates, the others deactivate so that they do not spawn guns as well. When he comes back, they all come back. This way you can manage how many vehicles are active without overloading the server.

Could you please explain this a bit more? I am not sure I follow the logic. What do you mean by "so that they do not spawn guns as well."?

EDIT: oh I see now actually, you are talking about having links between groups of them so they dont all spawn guns? Thats a good idea, I was just going to make sure they are placed out of range of each other so that only one group would be active at a time, but your method works as well. Alternatively, we could space a group out over a larger area so we need fewer of them, but the flak coverage would be pretty thin then. I think your linking them could actually work nicely because we want to have lots of flak without breaking the object limit, and linking them like that could accomplish that task.

I don't know if I set up the damage command properly, would one of you's look at this layout for the AAA template and let me know if I got it right.

cant look now (at work) but you need to change the damage to step (its one of the checkboxes) and I changed the damage threshold to 1 (not sure if thats an actual value or a percentage or what) and that seemed to work. Then you just set-up a message link AddOnDamaged from the watcherAA Gun to the counter and voila! remember to reset the counter every time though, otherwise it will only do it once. Oh and the counter must have a value of 1 as well..
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Just because I can give multiple orgasms to the furniture just by sitting on it, doesn't mean that I'm not sick of this damn war: the blood, the noise, the endless poetry...



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