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#81 Cyph3rs

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 00:07

Haven't got much to input apart from that I've been using FaceTrack NoIR with an Xbox360 Live Vision Camera for the past month or so, it's completely flawless, smooth motion, no jumpy around, tracks my movements flawlessly, I've tried TrackIR in the past and this is ALMOST as good as the real deal, but because I don't have to wear anything, I prefer FaceTrack NoIR :)
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#82 timbob67

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:25

Wow!

I popped into town this morning to pick up a webcam (a basic Logitech one £25 from PC World), and have just spent a couple of hours playing with FaceTrack - and the game experience for me is transformed! I feel now I have an awareness of where I am. Whereas before, I found it quite easy to get lost just taking off and flying a circuit of my airfield, now I am able to picture the "world" much more easily and just know where I am.

I'd been struggling with the concept of shelling out for TrackIR *and* having to wear a silly hat to play (my other half would never let me live it down!) but a cheap webcam and free software does the job fine! Even with only 10 mins spent playing with the settings and curves, I'm pretty happy with the response in RoF.
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#83 Felklaw

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 14:33

It truly is another world!
I am considering a Track IR system, but the simplicity of FaceTrackNoIR, and it's efficiency, means I don't think I will have to!
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#84 IMANU1991

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 19:30

i just got a trackir system, works mighty fine! so my FTN problem is solved.

http://youtu.be/LJcBpZd-SbU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"> me flying around.
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#85 Charlie_14

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 23:34

I've been following along in this thread for awhile now and you guys have me convinced to give FaceTrackNoIR a shot…I'll need to pick up a webcam, I saw the partial list of compatible cams on their site: http://facetracknoir...ity/webcams.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://facetracknoir...rceforge.net/co … ebcams.htm

Any suggestions for a webcam? Particularly for low light conditions or fast FPS? Personal experience? Set up ease? Any help appreciated.
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#86 SYN_Mars

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:52

PS3 eye works reasonably well in low light conditions but FTNIR requires enough light for it to see your face. In well lit conditions, the PS3 eye is fantastic (50fps with the cleye.ini hack mentioned on the FTNIR website). Mine cost £20 but you can get them cheaper.
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#87 Dutch2

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 16:14

PS3 eye works reasonably well in low light conditions but FTNIR requires enough light for it to see your face. In well lit conditions, the PS3 eye is fantastic (50fps with the cleye.ini hack mentioned on the FTNIR website). Mine cost £20 but you can get them cheaper.
Do not know by myself, using a MS VX1000, but indeed I read only positive reactions for the PS3-cam. I would go for this PS3 cam and skip others.
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#88 Charlie_14

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 16:20

Thanks guys, looking forward to sorting out this new setup, one less thing for my hands to do in maintaining SA is good and the price is definitely right.
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#89 Felklaw

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 18:15

I have an older Logitech eyeball sitting on top of my monitor for Skype calls, but noticed it sucked for FPS when using in ROF.

Once I set up the PS3 Eye, as I stated before, I got nearly 10 times the improvement in ROF.
I did enable the hack to get even higher FPS, but in all honesty, I felt the increase in the CPU usage really wasn't worth the fewer FPS which didn't make much difference to me.

You can't go wrong with it, and it will definately improve your SA to another level.
I can now totally watch as they shoot me down, where as before I had no idea where they shot me down from! lol
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#90 Charlie_14

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 13:04

Threw this up on another thread but I'll post it here for anyone still on the fence about FaceTrackNoIR:

Well, I got me handy webcam, loaded just the bare minumum of webcam drivers for it, none of the WinBlab this or iPicturesForAuntMargeret that, downloaded FaceTrackNoIR 1.6, installed it, and played with the default RoF profile they have as well as McMatt's and Jim's from here; Facetrack noIR

The net result? FacetRACKnOir works as advertised. If you are interested in trying it out this thread has some useful setup tips too, especially from "Holy Grail.": http://www.sas1946.c...p?topic=7689.24" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.sas1946.c...p?topic=7689.24

Basically, you'll have to diddle with it a little bit but basically you want to get 30fps out of your webcam, do so by turning everything "auto-anything" off in your webcam software, turn any auto-exposure off and turn exposure down as far as possible. Also ensure you have adequate lighting, if you play with it you'll see what works and what may not (pitch black, not so good). I found for me the camera worked best at the base of the screen, not mounted up top. This, combined with snapviews and zoom already mapped to the joystick/throttle just for quick reference (and because by now I'm so used to the things), should do wonders for SA. I can now not lose sight of the target, a BIG help…What's the old saying? Lose sight, lose the fight? For the price of a cheap webcam and maybe a small donation to the FaceTrackNoIr folks it may be worth a shot if TrackIR is out of the price range.
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#91 Pimpin

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 13:49

I might have a go with this, as I have a ps3 eye doing nothing. I find my TiR3 can suffer jerkiness because of light sources in my room.
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#92 Charlie_14

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 14:56

From what I understand that ps3 camera is the trick setup, I went with a Microsoft Lifecam Cinema and it turns out FPS: 30Hz, using anywhere from 5-7% of the cpu and 124MB of memory no problem after adjusting the auto stuff off and turning exposure down…I'm playing now trying to get response just a bit quicker on the far range of looking up and back in particular but it really is working well, and if you do move in a really squirrelly fashion and it needs to reacquire you it does so almost instantaneously without any drama…
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#93 Felklaw

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 17:49

You won't regret it Uther!

And the config hack which doubles the FPS on the PS3 Eye is as simple as dumping the file in the directory or taking it out. So can try it out and see if you need it or not.
I have it running stock and works like a charm.
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#94 Charlie_14

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 17:53

You won't regret it Uther!

And the config hack which doubles the FPS on the PS3 Eye is as simple as dumping the file in the directory or taking it out. So can try it out and see if you need it or not.
I have it running stock and works like a charm.

That's the one thing, I'd like to try to get better than 30fps out of this Microsoft LifeCam Cinema, the default drivers revert back to auto focus on start up…30 works, but stepping it up would be nice, I'll keep playing with it…
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#95 JimmyBlonde

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 18:28

You won't regret it Uther!

And the config hack which doubles the FPS on the PS3 Eye is as simple as dumping the file in the directory or taking it out. So can try it out and see if you need it or not.
I have it running stock and works like a charm.

That's the one thing, I'd like to try to get better than 30fps out of this Microsoft LifeCam Cinema, the default drivers revert back to auto focus on start up…30 works, but stepping it up would be nice, I'll keep playing with it…

If you do figure it out them please let me know how you did it, I have the same problem with mine. For quicker response just bring your Max and Min sliders back to 1 and set the power slider to about 25%.
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#96 Charlie_14

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 19:56

You won't regret it Uther!

And the config hack which doubles the FPS on the PS3 Eye is as simple as dumping the file in the directory or taking it out. So can try it out and see if you need it or not.
I have it running stock and works like a charm.

That's the one thing, I'd like to try to get better than 30fps out of this Microsoft LifeCam Cinema, the default drivers revert back to auto focus on start up…30 works, but stepping it up would be nice, I'll keep playing with it…

If you do figure it out them please let me know how you did it, I have the same problem with mine. For quicker response just bring your Max and Min sliders back to 1 and set the power slider to about 25%.

I'm happy with the response times, and I finally got the ability to look up in a way that doesn't require contortions after tweaking the curves, it's working pretty seamlessly right now…Still a little bounce at the extremes left or right (any suggestions on how to steady that bounce would be appreciated), but yeah, anything to get that FPS up and shut that default driver stuff down would be the way to fly…Lemme keep tweaking it.

On a side note, I'd posts the .ini file with the curves but for some reason it's not in the "Settings" folder…The original file I modified is in there (CKROF), but the one I modded and assigned a different name to is not (CKROFb). It has to be somewhere because everytime I load FaceTrackNoIR it's right there ready to run.

I'm not really clear on just what the EWMA "Min", "Max", and "Pow" settings do, but I have tweaked them mercilessly until the end result works for me, I'd be curious what function they are supposed to preform.

To anyone that is considering FaceTrack, don't read my babblings and think this is complicated or be discouraged, it's not and you shouldn't, I'm just an inveterate tinkerer who can't leave well enough alone and this is just the newest thing to obsess over. It's fun trying to figure out all the nuances.
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#97 JimmyBlonde

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 09:05

Min and max adjust how quickly the tracker responds to large and small movements. I can't remember off the top[ of my head which is which. Power adjusts the intertion of the motion afaik.
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#98 Charlie_14

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:08

Inertia…Never could figure out what that was all about…Sounds like my head is mounted on a spring…Inertia? Anyway…For others who want to try and are feeling their way through the setup process looking to dial it in, a couple pages FaceTrackNoIR suggests specifically for the web-cam:

http://facetracknoir...ooting info.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://facetracknoir...rceforge.net/in … 20info.pdf

http://facetracknoir...ity/webcams.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://facetracknoir...rceforge.net/co … ebcams.htm

I'm still having no luck upping my FPS from 30, Jim, but it's a rock solid 30 regardless of what the default camera drivers are doing. The only thing that can effect that speed is low (REAL low) light conditions. I looked at simply removing all the extraneous Microsoft dreck but it's hard to figure what is essential and what is not.
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#99 Felklaw

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 15:41

I actually jumped onto ROF after trying Flight beta last night. Didn't bother setting up the webcam and FaceTrackNoIR….. Oh boy did I miss it!!

Once you get used to using it, so hard to fly combat without it.
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#100 Charlie_14

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:06

Jimmy (or anybody else using a Microsoft Lifecam Cinema webcam) I have a question for ya…What are you using for ambient lighting during hours of darkness? Daytime I am good to go, the tracking works pretty much flawlessly, nighttime is a different story…Is the best setup a single light behind the monitor, behind and elevated? What's your setup?

Oh, and before I forget, another good resource: http://sourceforge.n...s/forum/1150910" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sourceforge.n...rojects/facetra … um/1150910
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#101 LWRonin

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 23:08

Hi All,

Probably a dumb question but here goes anyway. Just bought a used PS3 cam (don't know if it comes with a driver or not). Last night downloaded the V130 release of Facetrack. Have not installed anything yet. Now the dumb question - Do I need to install drivers for the PS3 cam first (which I am assuming I can get from Sony, if the cam didn't come with them), prior to installing the Facetrack software? Or will the facetrack just recognize the PS3 without any special drivers for the cam.

Also - am running a dual core E5400 2.7Ghz CPU with a GeForce250 (512MB) card - which runs the sim quite well at moderate graphics settings with no stutters either on or offline - wondering if the Facetrack may make an impact on how the sim runs?

Anyway - thanks in advance for any info.
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#102 Pimpin

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 23:15

Ronin look here, there is a link to the ps3 eye driver:
http://nuigroup.com/...iewthread/2921/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://nuigroup.com/...iewthread/2921/
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#103 Charlie_14

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 23:21

Ronin, I'm not sure about the impact on a dual core system although it seems a lot of folks are running Facetrack on a dual core no problem. One thing though, FaceTrackNoIR 1.60 is out with the following updates:

"Update 6 has been released as beta and can be downloaded here. Actually, we have chosen to release this version as a full-version. Users with new CPU's (like i5 and i7) should not experience 'IPP-errors' any more, when this full installer is used.

CAUTION: when you have tried version 1.5 and did get 'IPP-errors', you MUST un-install the Intel IPP-runtime, before installing v160 (otherwise, the IPP-problem will remain!). Un-installing can be done, via Control Panel/Software.

The following improvements have been implemented in v160:

Upgrade to the newest version of faceAPI, version 3.2.6. It was quite difficult to get this version working with FaceTrackNoIR, because the Qt-implementation of faceAPI was changed. Version 3.2.6. of faceAPI contains a number of improvements, among which:
Support for newer CPU-types;
Internal filtering, especially the X and Y rotations are more stable;
Improved web-cam support;
For a complete list, please consult the release notes for faceAPI 3.2.6.;
Fixed a minor bug concerning the 'center' behaviour on startup;
Moved all protocols to their own separate DLL. This reduces the size of the .EXE, makes the code more 'modular' and makes future expansions easier to implement.
Implemented 'Axis Reverse'. This option can be used to make 'looking back' more easy. It's a feature Milan has requested and hopefully he likes it…
Implemented 'Game Zero'. The games usually define a '0' position for all axis. This is not always the point the user wants to look at, when he 'stops' the face-tracker with the short-key. Use the Game Zero-key to define the in-game '0'-point.
A 'mouse look' interface was implemented. All programs that don't support any of the other protocols (like FPS's), but do have 'mouse look', can benefit from this.
The user-interface of FaceTrackNoIR has changed, the 'output-display' is probably the most eye-catching new feature.

Please let us know, if you like the new features. In our minds, we have already started with version 1.7.

Since we really appreciate our (serious) donors, they will receive an alpha-version of update 1.7, when it's available.


You can get 1.6 at their download page, scroll down:

http://facetracknoir...ks/download.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://facetracknoir...rceforge.net/in … wnload.htm
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#104 LWRonin

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 23:37

S! Uther and Charlie 14,

Thanks gents.

Uther - I'm assuming then that I should install these PS3 drivers before I install anything from Facetrack ?

Charlie 14 - Sorry to be thick, but would you advise that I disregard the V130 Facetrack (along with the V5 and EMWA updates) and just go straight to the 1.6 in your link ?

Again forgive the idiot questions but I am a complete noob on this stuff?

Many thanks again guys,
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#105 Pimpin

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 23:53

Ronin, I installed the PS3 driver first, as otherwise FTnoir doesn't 'see' the camera. As to the V1.30 I think, but am not entirely sure, that you have to install that as a base before you can install other versions.But as said, I am not entirely sure about that so you might want to wait for confirmation.
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#106 Charlie_14

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 00:21

I just installed 1.6 and it worked like a charm, it's a one download deal near as I can tell, you don't need 1.3 or anything else…I've never used 1.3 but the way the developers talk about 1.6 they seem to be treating it as a final release, beta designation notwithstanding, and 1.6 works great.
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#107 LWRonin

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 23:12

S! Again evryone,

Help….. LOL
Obviously I'm doing something wrong but cant figure out what.

First I installed the ps3 Eye driver that Uther referred me too (above) and ran that and the cam seems to function perfectly.

Next I installed the 1.6 Facetrack app that Charlie 14 referred me too.

When I start that up the software comes up but I don't see anything. Below is what comes up. I have only installed the 1.6 setup, nothing from the folders within (ie - the IPP Runtime orINSTMSI).

Have no idea what I'm doing wrong. Any help (as in hand holding) appreciated

Attached Files


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#108 SYN_Mars

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 23:20

Check the ps3 eye is working using the CL-eye device manager

Uninstall FTNIR and reinstall - the IPP, seeing machines API should install automatically and try again.
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#109 LWRonin

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 23:26

S! Tanyrhiew,

Yes the ps3 Eye is working using the CL eye device manager - pretty good picture too.

I have tried starting FTNIR both with and without the cam plugged in. As you can see in the screen capture FTNIR detects the cam, but no picture, and no effect in the game.

If I reinstall FTNIR should the cam be plugged in during the install or not?

Thanks for any help,
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#110 Charlie_14

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 23:36

S! Tanyrhiew,

Yes the ps3 Eye is working using the CL eye device manager - pretty good picture too.

I have tried starting FTNIR both with and without the cam plugged in. As you can see in the screen capture FTNIR detects the cam, but no picture, and no effect in the game.

If I reinstall FTNIR should the cam be plugged in during the install or not?

Thanks for any help,
Camera plugged in during install shouldn't matter, running the autoinstall from the download and installing everything does matter, I remember some folks had a problem with that. Let me go look at my settings.

OK, "game protocol" should be set on, "Fake TrackIR," and in that same box under settings I have both boxes in the submenu checked, "Start Dummy TrackIR exe," and, "Use TIR Views."

"Tracker Source," should be, "Face API," and for now just select the ROF profile.

(Duh, you have a pic of your setup right there.)
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#111 LWRonin

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 23:42

Hi Charly 14,

Went back and reread this thread and somewhere in the middle pages someone said something about running and installing theIPP Runtime and the VCRedit files. I haven't - thought everything installed automatically when you ran the install from 160? Maybe it hasn't?

Should I try that?

Thanks,
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#112 Charlie_14

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 23:50

Hi Charly 14,

Went back and reread this thread and somewhere in the middle pages someone said something about running and installing theIPP Runtime and the VCRedit files. I haven't - thought everything installed automatically when you ran the install from 160? Maybe it hasn't?

Should I try that?

Thanks,
Yeah, I don't think that's such a concern with 1.6 but I may be mistaking…Oh this is killing me because you know I had the same problem initially and it was something really simple I tweaked and the whole thing fired right up…Do you have, "Start Dummy TrackIR.exe," checked on the Game Protocal submenu/FTIR settings?
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#113 LWRonin

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 23:55

I have the Start Dummy Track IR box checked but not the top box "Use Track IR Views" because I can't check the box - It says if the checkbox is disabled the DLL was not found. Might that be in the other two install that I haven't done, that I mentioned above?

I'm sure its a simple switch or something, just cant seem to find it.

Thanks for your patience.
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#114 Charlie_14

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 00:03

OK, but I think with 1.6 using the autorun, or install wizard, or whatever, it's basically a no brainer, you just load up everything that includes and that is it. They do have some admonishments IF you had a previous version installed about removing IPP runtime, RE: "That's strange. Did you install an older version, before v160? You must go to Control Panel/Software and remove the 'Intel IPP Runtime' software. Then you must re-install v160 again (that should install the IPP again, with a different parameter)."

That is from their help page: http://sourceforge.n...s/forum/1150910" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sourceforge.n...rojects/facetra … um/1150910

Oh, you should click the invert X box in the lower right hand corner as well, but that doesn't have anything to do with our current problem.
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#115 LWRonin

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 00:08

Nope never had any of this installed.
Went back to post 59 by JimmyBlonde and it says in reference to 160 that you have to manually install those other things - might give it a try, just dont't want to FUBAR this thing up.

Thanks
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#116 Charlie_14

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 00:11

Make sure Jimmy isn't talking about a previous version… Post #59, lemme look at this…The start button can't be clicked? The camera is ID'd by the program but you can't start it? Or you can start it and it wont track/doesn't paint pretty yellow lines on your face?
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#117 LWRonin

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 00:14

Click the Start button and the XYZ settings come up all showing 0 with no tracking, no yellow lines and no face in the window.
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#118 SYN_Mars

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 00:15

1.6 is a lot more staright forward to install - well it was for me.

Been over a minth since I installed but if i remember correctly, the faceAPi, IPP installed as part of the main install. Try installing them seperately - won't hurt I promise.

The first thing is to get the camera displaying in ftnir before worrying about the fake-TIR mode etc. You need the tir dll for that to work anyway!
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#119 Charlie_14

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 00:16

OK, post #59, got it…

"no tracking, no yellow lines and no face in the window."

AHHHHHHHH! OK, just one more thing before you go that route, humor me for just one moment…Go into your camera drivers, shut auto everything OFF…Focus, exposure, anything auto, shut it off…Turn exposure down as well and let's see what you have
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#120 Charlie_14

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 00:17

I'm with Tany, all that stuff loads with the autoinstall in 1.6.
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