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New Handley Page O/400 Bomber Pics


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#121 Karma-Police

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 08:55

Few bombers were shot down by a single seat fighter.
The first risk of casuality was the crash landing.

I've read that an SE5a pilot succeded in bringing down a gigantic Staaken R.VI.
A big victory !
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#122 RichardG

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 14:48

Since they are still in the process of building these plane models, I'll mention it here before they forget it. For the love of God, please include the plane trim tabs on these new bombers. If your going to such great detail, include ALL the control surfaces.
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#123 acer

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 22:21

Looks fantastic, Hopefully not long to wait!!!!!!!!
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#124 JoeCrow

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Posted 31 October 2010 - 23:13

Since they are still in the process of building these plane models, I'll mention it here before they forget it. For the love of God, please include the plane trim tabs on these new bombers. If your going to such great detail, include ALL the control surfaces.

Did they have trim tabs? Where?
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#125 Jason_Williams

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:09

Since they are still in the process of building these plane models, I'll mention it here before they forget it. For the love of God, please include the plane trim tabs on these new bombers. If your going to such great detail, include ALL the control surfaces.

Building the model has absolutely no effect on the coding necessary to implement trim tabs. Trim tabs are not coming in 1.016. Don't know when, but we know you want them.

Jason
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#126 O_WolfPac

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:42

I might be mistaken but after a 30 min search i didnot find reference to TRIM on the Handley Page 0/400 bomber.
It did have something that could be used as TRIM which is the elevator was independant left and right sides , so technically trim could be manually set in responses just like all other planes in Rise of Flight.
I might be wrong and it had trim.

Did find this write up rather worrying , i bet the pilot and crew got very worried when it started happening in mid flight !

"During World War I, the British Handley Page 0-400
bi-plane experienced severe tailplane vibration at high
speed. Investigations in 1916 revealed that tail flutter
was the culprit. This was the result of a interaction
between the fuselage twisting motion and the antisymmetrical
pitch rotations of the independently
actuated right and left elevators. The phenomenon
was the first recognized instance of flutter, a selfexcited,
vibratory instability."
Ref links :-
http://cobweb.ecn.pu...srael_paper.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://cobweb.ecn.pu....edu/~aae556/re … _paper.pdf
and in this below ref link the writter spelt Handley page as hadley page :) but it mentions Solution was to add torsional stiffness between right and left elevators :)
http://www.ae.metu.e...y_Kolonay_1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ae.metu.e...r/~yyaman/avt08 … onay_1.pdf

I bet the Flutter really made the plane very hard to fly when it started and could of caused multiples of odd re-actions to happen to the planes flight path within a second.
Twitchy moment ! for all in the plane!


But then again its one HUGE BOMBER ,it makes the fighters look soo Tiny!! flying along side :D
Really looking forward to being in a Formation Bombing Run , Excellent :D

Best Regards
O_Wolfpac
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#127 O_Taipan

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:38

Anyone seen the pictures where the bomb compartment was converted to a passenger bay to use it as an airliner??
I would hope that the bay doors didn't open :lol:
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#128 Mogster

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:21

Did any of these WW1 aircraft have modern style trim tabs? I know some of the Sopwiths had all moving horizontal stabs to adjust pitch trim, but actual trim tabs?
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#129 Viper69

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 13:27

I think the SE5 had inflight adjustable tabs with the trim wheel thats near the seat.
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#130 Mogster

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 14:15

No, I mean actuall tabs on the control surfaces, the SE5a had the all moving horizontal stab system.

I'm not sure if any sim has modelled trim tabs properly, they tend to just move the whole control surface, which isn't correct.

Modern trim tabs are little flaps on the edge of the larger control surface.

Image

Anyway this is offtopic, I don't want to derail Jasons HPO thread.
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#131 JoeCrow

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 18:27

No, I mean actuall tabs on the control surfaces, the SE5a had the all moving horizontal stab system.

I'm not sure if any sim has modelled trim tabs properly, they tend to just move the whole control surface, which isn't correct.

Some aircraft in Il-2 had correctly modelled trim-tabs but I've never spotted them on any WW1 plane. I suppose that doesn't mean they didn't exist at all but I would be surprised if they did. I'd always assumed that they coincided with the introduction of flaps.
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#132 Viper69

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 19:36

Regarding tabs. Am I correct in remembering that alot of allied planes had tabs for trim adjustment and most of the german planes actually adjusted the control surface itself? I remember specifically the ME109 had a flying wing design tail that moved up and down when trimmed and the hurricane and spit had a standard fixed tail with a movable control surface. With tabs underneath that moved to trim? I am asking because I dont know for sure where the tabs would be at.
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#133 O_WolfPac

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 21:57

No wonder the fighter in the photos looks TINY !

Length: 62 ft 10¼ in (19.16 m)
Wingspan: 100 ft (30.48 m)
Height: 22 ft (6.71 m)

Amazing

Technically that a mobile runway for tiny fighters :D
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#134 JoeCrow

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 22:04

Regarding tabs. Am I correct in remembering that alot of allied planes had tabs for trim adjustment and most of the german planes actually adjusted the control surface itself? I remember specifically the ME109 had a flying wing design tail that moved up and down when trimmed and the hurricane and spit had a standard fixed tail with a movable control surface. With tabs underneath that moved to trim? I am asking because I dont know for sure where the tabs would be at.

They were usually inboard of the elevator but they only gave a very small change of trim., probably just to balance fuel/armament loadout.
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#135 Viper69

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 22:32

Just FYI by allied I meant in WW2 not WW1. Thanks for the info pigsty
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#136 sturmkraehe

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 00:29

Actually one should look a bit more into detail when talking about trim tabs in WW2. I must admit that I am no expert on this but from what I know about aerodynamics, these lil trim tabs that the Spits and Hurries had integrated in their elevator and rudder may have also been used to reduce forces on the elevator or rudder. But this is just even less then guessing. Actually I really don't know ;)

If you for instance want to pull up you pull on the stick making the elevator drop down. The elevator moving down could be helped if with aerodynamic devices a little bit of lift is applied locally to the elevator but a lift facing down helping to push the elevator down.

Can somebody confirm or infirm this? I really would like to know …
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#137 Fredbat

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:02

what I've been waiting for .. great stuff
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#138 ZaltysZ

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 13:38

If you for instance want to pull up you pull on the stick making the elevator drop down. The elevator moving down could be helped if with aerodynamic devices a little bit of lift is applied locally to the elevator but a lift facing down helping to push the elevator down.

Can somebody confirm or infirm this? I really would like to know …

These devices are called servo tabs.
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#139 Mogster

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 15:57

After all that, could the O400s pilot set trim from the cockpit?
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#140 Viper69

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 16:08

That is the question.
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#141 Jonathan

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 18:15

I have a question about the multi-engine bombers. How are the engines managed in these planes? Are there going to be seperate controls for mixture and throttle and radiator for both engines? I really need to know as I am thinking about picking up another throttle quadrant today, but I would like to know if I even have to. Thanks.

-Jonathan-
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#142 RichardG

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 18:46

They can't make a control input for trim tabs. Why would you think there would be another control input for extra engines?
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#143 Jonathan

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:03

They can't make a control input for trim tabs. Why would you think there would be another control input for extra engines?

I didn't assume they did, that is why I am asking. So unless you know for certain, please don't bother answering.

If anyone has any real info on this it would be appreciated.
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#144 Miggins

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:13

I was wondering the same Jonathan.

Currently I'm using a Saitek throttle quadrant and wondered if I am going to want another for the multi engines.

I suppose I could get by with simply doubling up the controls, but what to do if the radiator takes damage on one engine but the other if still fine?

What I'm thinking now is to add a shift key combo for the second engine and see how that works, but until we get more info from Jason about the 0/400 we can't say for sure.
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#145 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:15

I think we are but I'm not sure. They had no problem adding a new control for the Ubercharge of the BMW engine so the trim arugment is m00t.

At any case, I've heard of quite a few throttle quadrants developing problems with spiking and bad responses, mine was one of them. So an extra set might be a good investment regardless ;).

Still, probably best to wait for official word on it.
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#146 Jonathan

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:19

I'm getting spiking in one of my axis but it's not too bad. I just use it for radiator. Kind of lame for something that costs 80 bucks… I don't really "want" to get a new one, but if they are going to have seperate inputs for both engines I think it would be worth it. I might pick up a yoke too, to fly the bombers.
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#147 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:22

You might be bale to get a good combo deal somewhere on a yoke + quadrant? And there are also quadrants out there with 6 levers.

Personally I'm inclined to stay away from Saitek now.
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#148 Jonathan

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:24

I actually have my quadrant taken apart as we speak. When I use my fingers to move the pots all seems smooth. So I'm going to try a few things to see if I can get it working correctly again. So far my saitek pedals have been perfectly fine.
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#149 Viper69

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:51

They can't make a control input for trim tabs. Why would you think there would be another control input for extra engines?

I give up, you are going to have to wait like everyone else, no sense getting snarky about it.
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#150 Jonathan

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 19:54

As a beta tester I guess you cannot divulge any information without permission from jason and the team? Even something as small as whether or not the engines are managed individually?
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#151 O_Smiladon

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 20:01

They can't make a control input for trim tabs. Why would you think there would be another control input for extra engines?


Mate who gives a rats ass about trim tabs at the moment? plus you can set your profiles up in your options I can fly level with out a worry with no input on my joystick for all my planes, because I set up my profiles.

just be thankful that you are going to get a sim that is going to out class anything on the market in the nexy update. trim tabs or not.

Good things comes to those who wait and dont moan.

O_Smiladon
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#152 Viper69

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 20:11

That is the case Jonathan. Jason handles all the release of info.
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#153 Jonathan

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 20:13

I understand completely. Perhaps I'll PM jason to get the info I need. I've decided I'm going to pick up another quadrant anyway, as I can't seem to fix the one I have. However I can still recycle the two working axis and 6 buttons into my sim-pit project.

So, does anyone know if the REAL HP 0/400 had seperate controls for each engine?
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#154 Viper69

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 20:15

I eventually would love to get a quadrant, if work picks up, the CH one looks sweet.
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#155 Jonathan

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 20:16

They are useful until they break. So just keep that in mind. Go easy on them. I might pick up a yoke combo too… I'm still debating that.
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#156 Viper69

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 20:57

Do you have a CH quadrant of Saitek? They look spindly and I could see where they would break easy. Something like that wont replace a hotas throttle by no means.
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#157 Pimpin

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 21:04

I have had a saitek quadrant for a few years now.Yes,the levers look spindly,but it works perfectly.
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#158 hq_Jorri

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 21:44

The levers look spindly but are great, and very suitable for ROF since they resemble the throttle controls we have in a lot of the planes (closer than any other throttle quadrant or hotas does anyway).

But they seem to wear pretty quickly :?
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#159 Brutal_Baron

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 23:53

Speaking of Bombers and artillery destruction check out this news .

For those of you that are lucky enough to view BBC TV, ( But not me here in the US ) BBC will due a program in a BBC documentary, The First World War from Above, which is being broadcast on November 7. A lot of new material and photos will be aired. I wish I could see this but here is the link with some amazing photos.


Read more http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz14AjdUP7L" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail...uk/news/article … z14AjdUP7L
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#160 JoeCrow

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 23:59

For those of you that are lucky enough to view BBC TV, ( But not me here in the US ) They are due to feature in a BBC documentary, The First World War from Above, which is being broadcast on November 7. A lot of new material and photos will be aired. I wish I could see this but here is the link with some amazing photos.


Read more http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz14AjdUP7L" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail...uk/news/article … z14AjdUP7L

Thanks for the heads-up BB - noted!

Keep an eye on Youtube.
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