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'The Death of Albert Ball' Film sequel


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#1 Gisbod

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 14:48

Fourth in the series: 'The Death of Albert Ball'

Comments welcome..

There's quite a lot of content as his last patrol was so busy - it lasted about 3 hours! (fortunately the video's only 7min :lol: ) I've still had to leave a few action scenes out..

Cheers

Ps If you like it, watch in 720p and full screen for best effect ;)



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#2 Viper69

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 15:01

Very nice as always!
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#3 HotTom

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 16:42

Really stunning in HD and full screen! A real work of art!

One major criticism of the subtitles: Nowhere does the narrative introduce the pilots whose names pop up in the story.

Who were Meintjas, Hoidge, (Capt. Cyril) Crowe (who reported seeing Ball fly into the cloud), etc.? I assume they were in Ball's flight but I don't think it ever says that or introduces them. Did they have first names (Lothar von Richthofen has a first name; why only him)? Ranks? I think anyone watching this without any previous knowledge (and I certainly know the story and all its various versions) would be quite puzzled.

The subtitles say Ball was leading the squadron. I'm not sure that's true; he was a flight leader. But in any case, the only flight mentioned is C Flight. Were all the pilots named members of C Flight? Was Ball leading it? Where were the squadron's other flights?

What was their mission? I believe they were escorting a flight of Sopwith Strutter bombers.

What about the clock tower? One story of his death is that on every flight he would fly past a clock tower to check the time and was shot down by a German machine gun in the tower. No one is sure that is true but it is a valid theory almost always mentioned and may well be true.

A German officer reported seeing Ball's plane fall from the cloud inverted and with the prop not turning.

I suggest going back and redoing those subtitles to make the story more coherent. His death is indeed a mystery and maybe you should emphasize that aspect.

But the shooting and editing and music are superb! A treat to watch!

S!

HT
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#4 150GCT_Veltro

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 17:00

You're a talented guy Gisbod!

Thank you very much, is great and the clouds give it somenthing more!

Fokker, Nieuport, Sopwith, Royal Factory, Albatros……really a pleasure to look at! RoF rocks!
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#5 JoeCrow

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 17:33

Congratulations again Gisbod.

Another good 'un!

Cheers
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#6 hq_Neca

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 17:57

@HoT TOm, answer those questions. Release all of us from chains of stupidity and give us charm of WWI knowledge.
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#7 hq_Jorri

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 18:10

I agree with Tom that it's somewhat of a miss not having the narration and subtitles of the previous videos.

On the other hand it's very nice to see Gisbod taking his videos even to a next level and letting the images speak for themselves.
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#8 Gisbod

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 18:12

I do agree with your points Tom, but to defend myself…


One major criticism of the subtitles: Nowhere does the narrative introduce the pilots whose names pop up in the story.

Who were Meintjas, Hoidge, (Capt. Cyril) Crowe (who reported seeing Ball fly into the cloud), etc.? I assume they were in Ball's flight but I don't think it ever says that or introduces them. Did they have first names (Lothar von Richthofen has a first name; why only him)? Ranks? I think anyone watching this without any previous knowledge (and I certainly know the story and all its various versions) would be quite puzzled.

I did actually have them in the subtitles to start with but it was just too much information squeezed into the opening - there are 11 SE pilots plus a Spad and a Triplane pilot plus the Germans.. I figured people wouldn't take all that in anyway - but I take your point - I had quite a bit of feedback saying there were too many subtitles in the previous ones - So I made an effort to minimise them this time.(Lothar was mentioned to avoid confusion with Manfred..)


The subtitles say Ball was leading the squadron. I'm not sure that's true; he was a flight leader. But in any case, the only flight mentioned is C Flight. Were all the pilots named members of C Flight? Was Ball leading it? Where were the squadron's other flights?

Again, I reckoned too much info for a mini video? He was leading that day according to Chaz Bowyer - Author of 'Albert Ball VC' My main source.

What was their mission? I believe they were escorting a flight of Sopwith Strutter bombers.

That's right, but also a general offensive sweep in coordination with 19 & 8 Sqaudrons

What about the clock tower? One story of his death is that on every flight he would fly past a clock tower to check the time and was shot down by a German machine gun in the tower. No one is sure that is true but it is a valid theory almost always mentioned and may well be true.

There's no reference to this in the book? Which is the most up to date source I could find.

A German officer reported seeing Ball's plane fall from the cloud inverted and with the prop not turning.

That's what I was working on ;)

I suggest going back and redoing those subtitles to make the story more coherent. His death is indeed a mystery and maybe you should emphasize that aspect.

I'm with you there, but it was a long action packed patrol with a huge amount happening - It's pretty hard to get this represented in such a short space of time!


But the shooting and editing and music are superb! A treat to watch!


Thanks! I love the RoF lighting effects - They're just awesome! :shock:


S!

HT

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#9 SYN_MrWolf

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 18:13

Nice work Gisbod! Keep it up.
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#10 Endy

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 18:17

Gisbod, that was a truly fantastic film, I will try to save that to my favorites folder.

Thank you, a superb achievement.
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#11 HotTom

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 18:54

Gis,

In the interest of saving space, I won't requote myself and your responses ;)

BUT: If you do a Google search for "Albert Ball Death Clock Tower" I know you'll see that is a widely accepted (but not proven) cause of his death. His plane crashed just outside the town (in fact, only about 100 yards from the cemetery where he's buried; I've been there) so it's highly possible he was shot down flying over the town – and he was known to do it on every mission – by a gunner waiting in ambush.

I'm not saying you're wrong and your (similarly not proven) version with Ball emerging from the cloud disoriented and crashing into the ground also is a widely held theory.

But since there are several conflicting versions and it is a mystery, I would have emphasized that aspect in telling the story rather than ignoring the conflicting versions. Introducing a "grassy knoll" theory adds interest and it happens to be quite valid.

As to the pilot names, sorry, but I disagree. Even giving their rank and first name when you first introduce each would make it more clear with very little more investment in space.

Again, it's a beautiful video.

But it also is a controversial subject and, had it been me, I would have at least alluded to the mystery. Everyone loves an unsolved mystery ;)

S!

HT
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#12 HotTom

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 19:04

@HoT TOm, answer those questions. Release all of us from chains of stupidity and give us charm of WWI knowledge.

There are library (and book store) shelves full of history books and a whole internet full of web sites to "release you from your chains of stupidity." :?

I'm not convinced anything will help "give you charm," though. :lol:

Google is your friend ;)

HT
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#13 Viper69

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 19:34

haha, my chains of stupidity are locked by government grade locks and links made of depleted uranium it seems.
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#14 =FB=Chapay

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 19:48

Спасибо-Друг! :!:
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#15 hq_Neca

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 20:48

@HoT TOm, answer those questions. Release all of us from chains of stupidity and give us charm of WWI knowledge.

There are library (and book store) shelves full of history books and a whole internet full of web sites to "release you from your chains of stupidity." :?

I'm not convinced anything will help "give you charm," though. :lol:

Google is your friend ;)

HT
I just wanted answers from you, but doesn't matter.
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#16 HotTom

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 21:09

I just wanted answers from you, but doesn't matter.

No one has the answers.

That's why how Ball died is a mystery…and an interesting one, IMHO. ;)

S!

HT
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#17 hq_Neca

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 21:26

Point is, you asked many questions, for an unknown things, and stated them as missing, and bad, but you haven't gave away your own informations. I won't continue this here, you may contact me via PM.

Cheers.
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#18 Flashy

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 07:43

Great Video as always Gisbod! Throughly enjoyed watching it, although I must admit I was slightly confused by how all the parts fit together. The first half of the video does seem like the different scenes could be unrelated to each other. Maybe a subtitle with "C-flight are split up by the Kette" or something would make it seem more.. connected? Also, maybe giving the rank of the pilots would also help a bit - like Lt. Mentjies, Lt.Child etc?

Your camera skills and editing and direction are beyond reproach though - excellently done! it looks 10X better than those History channel documentaries!
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Just because I can give multiple orgasms to the furniture just by sitting on it, doesn't mean that I'm not sick of this damn war: the blood, the noise, the endless poetry...


#19 Gisbod

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 12:19

Fair point Flashy..

I just wanted to cut back the text to make it less distracting - just hard to get the balance right! :?
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#20 Flashy

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 12:52

Fair point Flashy..

I just wanted to cut back the text to make it less distracting - just hard to get the balance right! :?

I bet! I cant imagine the amount of work that goes into a video like this! Are you going to do Lanoe Hawker's death as well?
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Just because I can give multiple orgasms to the furniture just by sitting on it, doesn't mean that I'm not sick of this damn war: the blood, the noise, the endless poetry...


#21 Gisbod

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 13:33

I dunno really Flashy - After I've finished one I can't imagine starting another - Too much effort! :? :lol:

Just out of interest someone asked me about why we get disorientated in cloud..

We have little hairs and fluid inside our ears that help us sense movement and aid our balance - It's impossible to fly with no visual references and no instruments (artificial horizon) - When we roll the fluid moves and the hairs sense the roll but if the roll stops at, say, 45 degrees the hairs reset that as their datum so the brain thinks its back at straight and level again - but we're still at 45 degrees! - the brain ends up being completely disorientated.. :( It's been the cause of endless accidents! Flying 'by the seat of the pants' is not possible without some visual reference… ;)

Always amazed the WW1 aircraft tried it at all! I think the Fokker D.VII had a rudimentary Artifical Horizon..
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#22 MicahSJ

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 14:30

S! Gisbod


Thanks again for another great video 8-). I do have a couple of recommendations for some videos. Maybe you could do one on the famous dogfight between Guynemer and Udet, and also the one that was mentioned earlier concerning Hawker and von Richthofen(the death of Hawker).

S!
Micah
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#23 gavagai

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 14:31

Amazing movie Gisbod.

I'm not sure the ending is accurate, but then again, no one seems to know for sure how he died.
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#24 Der_Sevtl

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 16:50

Epic video Gisbod!

Keep them coming!
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#25 =Fifi=

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 22:04

Very nice vid mate!
A lot of work and time to achieve this…
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#26 Gisbod

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:44

Gis,

If you do a Google search for "Albert Ball Death Clock Tower" I know you'll see that is a widely accepted (but not proven) cause of his death. His plane crashed just outside the town (in fact, only about 100 yards from the cemetery where he's buried; I've been there) so it's highly possible he was shot down flying over the town – and he was known to do it on every mission – by a gunner waiting in ambush.

I'm not saying you're wrong and your (similarly not proven) version with Ball emerging from the cloud disoriented and crashing into the ground also is a widely held theory.

S!

HT

According to the book there were 4 witnesses to the falling inverted from the cloud scenario: Leutnant Franz Hailer of A292 Flieger-Abteilung, his brother and 2 companions. They ran to the site of the crash.

Hailer organised the aftermath and had Ball's body transported to a field hospital where he was examined - He had no external injuries, but many internal ones, all deemed to be as a result of the crash including; a broken back, crushed chest, broken arm and multiple leg fractures.

The mystery for me was that Richthofen later claimed the Kill as his own - stating the aircraft's engine and machine gun serial numbers on the combat report, but getting the aircraft type wrong! A Triplane is pretty fundamentally different to an SE5! :geek:

I guess it may well have been a propaganda thing, as Ball was the leading Ace of the RFC with 44 kills and a 'celebrity' at home..

But with all these things - I guess it's conjecture! :roll:
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#27 HotTom

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 16:00

Well, none of that detracts from how terrific your video is, Gis!

And it is the most probable of the competing versions of the story.

At least we agree on the need for the F2b Biff :)

Great vid!

S!

HT
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