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Top 3 most lopsided matchups


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#1 gavagai

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 14:36

Here are my top 3 most lopsided matchups in RoF. I'm thinking semi-historical adversaries here, no SE5 vs E.III, etc.

1: Nieuport 17 vs. Albatros D.II

When you see an Albatros D.II in the N17, you know you're just meat on the table. You will be out-rolled, out-turned, and run-down with little chance for escape. Even the sight of a friendly N17 isn't much to cheer about. In practice, and without an altitude advantage, it seems to take 3 N17s to handle one D.II. Granted, the N17 does out climb the D.II, and normally that would cause me to demote this matchup to #2 or #3, but putting that climbrate to use before you get plinked by the D.II that just did a hard 270 degree turn and pitches up to insert lead in your ass is no easy feat. Additionally, the single gun N17 is notoriously difficult to fly with its lack of a vertical stabilizer, while the dual gun D.II responds beautifully and has no surprises.

2: Albatros D.Va vs. Sopwith Camel

In terms of performance disparity, this matchup is actually more lopsided than #1, with the difference that the Camel can be tricky for new pilots, and its prey, the D.Va, is relatively easy to fly. Therefore I rank this matchup as the second most lopsided. Still, the Camel has the advantage in level speed, turn rate, climb rate, and dive, and this performance advantage is more than enough to compensate for the Camel's trickiness (and it's not that tricky once you learn the fail-safe spin recovery inputs). One of the most facile bits of advice we hear is "don't dogfight a Camel." Also, don't try to run from one in the D.Va, or dive away, or climb away…don't even leave the hangar if you want to fly to the D.Va's strengths. The Albatros D.III and Fokker D.VII are hardly better off, but I will give a slight nod to the Pfalz D.IIIa for offering the competent Camel pilot a small challenge.

3: Nieuport 28 vs. Fokker D.VIIF

Although the historical overlap for these aircraft is small, finding these aircraft together online is common. At sea level the N28 has an ever so slight advantage in level speed (don't count on it!), and it rolls well. But its normally respectable climb rate advantage is gone, and its wallowing-in-the-muck turns make it an inviting target. The only chance here seems to be to force an overshoot with a well timed scissors, because the D.VIIF rolls poorly, but even that is futile unless the D.VIIF pilot doesn't know to back off the throttle. Unlike matchups #1 and #2, pilots often have a choice to fly something significantly better than the N28, and so can avoid this lopsided contest. However, in at least one mission I can think of, once the SE5s, Camels, and Spads have been used up, it is typical to see players log off rather than take up the remaining N28s.

What are your top 3 lopsided matchups?
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#2 J2_Sturm

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 14:51

… once the SE5s, Camels, and Spads have been used up, it is typical to see players log off rather than take up the remaining N28s.

Seriously ? People do this just because they have to fly a plane that's deemed inferior ? I mean, I'm usually easy meat whatever I'm flying - due to my lack of skill/practice. This doesn't make me log off…
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#3 Gimpy117

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:28

Albatross D.II vs. DH2
Often in the early war servers one will notice that the D.II is in high demand.
Why is this? Because it absolutely cleans house. Thats why. On paper, this aircraft should be countered by the N.17. But we all know how woefully under-modeled the poor little neiuport is.

Camel vs. Just about anything
yep, I said it. Camel bashing begin. Currently in game, the Sopwith has all of it's strengths, but little of its weaknesses. It's too quick. Can out loop a D.VIIF, still out turn any fighter to the left and the spin recovery is easy once you learn. Unless you have a Dr.I the only way to get one is to catch him off guard or hope the crashes. Otherwise it has any German aircraft, unless you happen to have bought the 2 planes that can out run it.
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#4 arjisme

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:40

However, in at least one mission I can think of, once the SE5s, Camels, and Spads have been used up, it is typical to see players log off rather than take up the remaining N28s.
It might also be that they don't own the N28.
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#5 gavagai

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:42

N28 is one of the default aircraft you get when you purchase the game.
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#6 hq_Neca

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:45

If you bought the game when it was released, you wouldn't get N28 and DVa I think ;)
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#7 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:49

Only the American and European release included the N28 and D.Va.
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#8 IRFC_SmokinHole

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:50

… once the SE5s, Camels, and Spads have been used up, it is typical to see players log off rather than take up the remaining N28s.

Seriously ? People do this just because they have to fly a plane that's deemed inferior ? I mean, I'm usually easy meat whatever I'm flying - due to my lack of skill/practice. This doesn't make me log off…

The N.28 is a great plane to fly in pairs. That's why, for me, 80 percent of the joy of the game is to be on comms with friends and laugh at the action. I can be idling the Mercedes next to the hanger and have fun.
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#9 WW1EAF_Paf

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:54

… and the spin recovery is easy once you learn.
Ok, how long took it to learn the recovery? Did the real pilots had so many chances to do so?
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#10 NakedSquirrel

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:55

1: Nieuport 17 vs. Albatros D.II

Climb climb climb. It's an energy fight plain and simple. Unfortunately the D.II in game retains its energy very well in game and turns on a dime compared to the n17. The best you can do is stay high and perform diving attacks when the opportunity arises.

2: Albatros D.Va vs. Sopwith Camel

The DVa is a bit slower than it should be, but one advantage it does have is that it is very stable. You will rarely get caught in a spin (Unless you eat someone's prop wash). The best way to deal with a camel is performing snap rolls and other harsh maneuvers that the camel can't mimic without risking a flat spin. Best to come in with E. You can turn to meet his guns 50% of the time, but you'll be on the defensive once you've lost height.

3: Nieuport 28 vs. Fokker D.VIIF

DVIIF was the best plane of the war. You're toast in a n28 lol


Camel vs. Just about anything

The Pfalz DXII, Fok DVIIf and Fok D8 can easily out climb the camel. (although the Pfalz has to be above 1000m or have lots and lots of E). Just don't fall into a turning fight and you can easily toy with the slower, poor climbing Sopwith Camel.
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#11 hq_Chimpy

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:55

i totally disagree! :lol:

i suck what ever i fly, even if i start on the 6 of a Nieuport 17 in an alby D.II i promise you the Nieup pilot will out turn me, they will shoot me and i will die.

but then.. i do really suck :oops:
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#12 arjisme

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:58

N28 is one of the default aircraft you get when you purchase the game.
:oops: Doh! You are right!!
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#13 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 15:59

N28 is one of the default aircraft you get when you purchase the game.
:oops: Doh! You are right!!

Only the American and European release included the N28 and D.Va.

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#14 -Requiem-

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:02

I think a DVII versus Camel scenario is a much worse matchup than the Dva versus a Camel. At least the Dva can scissor and retain some energy well, some of the best engagements I've had were when I was in a Dva against a Camel.
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#15 hq_Jorri

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:09

Fokker EIII versus SE5a

DH2 versus Fokker DVIIF

Nuff said, shit's unbalanced!
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#16 gavagai

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:22

Camel vs. Just about anything

The Pfalz DXII, Fok DVIIf and Fok D8 can easily out climb the camel. (although the Pfalz has to be above 1000m or have lots and lots of E). Just don't fall into a turning fight and you can easily toy with the slower, poor climbing Sopwith Camel.

Agreed. I've learned the hard way that it's foolish to engage Camels on the deck, but just sticking to 1km and above makes the D.VIIF very capable. And although I suck in it, I've seen good sticks in the Dr1 handle Camels just fine.
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#17 MattM

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:25

SE5a vs. D.Va

SPAD vs. D.VII

D.II vs. DH2
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#18 SJK

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:29

albatross dv series is supposed to be historically inferior to all allied types of the time. It was one of Germany's mistakes (not developing new type sooner). Albatross pilots and for that matter all planes should attack from height, I don't find the camel too hard to fly against in a tross, If I use the Dicta Boelcke.

I agree with the fist one. D2 is oddly maneuverable. One thing I woiuld like to see change in the community is the generalization of central planes as turn and burners. Against spad or se I would use superior turn, against camel or pup,(fixed n17?) I would use superior speed and only attack from height or with some advantage. Know your match-ups and survive. If you see a d2 dive for your lines and fly back to base!
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#19 gavagai

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:35

I think a DVII versus Camel scenario is a much worse matchup than the Dva versus a Camel. At least the Dva can scissor and retain some energy well, some of the best engagements I've had were when I was in a Dva against a Camel.

But unlike the D.Va, the D.VII pilot has a chance to decline combat if he spots the Camel from far enough away.
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#20 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:36

Something I noticed (and valued) on sunday is that the D.VII can take a lot of punishment to the wings while the D.Va will fold easily, something quite useful in a big fight where you cannot evade every enemy.
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#21 gavagai

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:38

albatross dv series is supposed to be historically inferior to all allied types of the time. It was one of Germany's mistakes (not developing new type sooner).

True. A typical tactic in the D.Va was to run away from Camels, declining combat if they didn't have an advantage.

Something I noticed (and valued) on sunday is that the D.VII can take a lot of punishment to the wings while the D.Va will fold easily, something quite useful in a big fight where you cannot evade every enemy.

Also true. I like that the wings don't come off the moment you try to turn after sustaining fire.
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#22 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:42

albatross dv series is supposed to be historically inferior to all allied types of the time. It was one of Germany's mistakes (not developing new type sooner).

True. A typical tactic in the D.Va was to run away from Camels, declining combat if they didn't have an advantage.

You can dive away, you just have to hope not to have some kill-greedy suicidal bastard after you :) IRL people were probably a lot more cautious so I guess they would often not pursue.
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#23 gavagai

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:46

albatross dv series is supposed to be historically inferior to all allied types of the time. It was one of Germany's mistakes (not developing new type sooner).

True. A typical tactic in the D.Va was to run away from Camels, declining combat if they didn't have an advantage.

You can dive away, you just have to hope not to have some kill-greedy suicidal bastard after you :) IRL people were probably a lot more cautious so I guess they would often not pursue.

I'm not going to comment because that would involve a direct comparison between historical examples and RoF, and therefore constitute a criticism, and we all know how much I love our dear game…. So, yeah, no comment.
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#24 Hellbender

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 16:59

I agree.


Thread hijack!


Albatros D.Va vs. Nieuport 28 is probably the most balanced matchup in the sim.

What are some other nearly perfectly balanced matchups?
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#25 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:04

Dolphin vs D.VII can be well matched. Some people also claim that the DH2 and E.III are well matched but I have not flown them against humans yet, only just bought them yesterday.

D.XII vs S.E.5a can be interesting between 1000-2000m, as well as S.E.5a vs D.VIIF and Spad vs D.VIIF at <1000m respectively.
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#26 NakedSquirrel

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:16

Actually speaking of unfair matchups. Capt. Darling and I went on that server with 'all the planes except Dr1 and Camel so we could test the D.II vs the D.III and DVa. The server started to populate and we kept getting pounced by Pfalz, DVa's and DVIIf's and we learned that the D.II is ridiculously maneuverable in comparison.
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#27 MattM

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:21

What are some other nearly perfectly balanced matchups?
Camel vs. DR.I

SE5a vs. D.XII

E.III vs. DH2


(D.VIIF vs. SPAD)

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#28 SharpeXB

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:25

If you’re in the N28 facing the DVIIF there’s a simple good move you can do, it works every time…
Get to low altitude, about 30m max
Find something soft to fly over like haystacks or something, roll inverted and fall out of your aircraft.
It’s risky but you’ve got a better chance of survival than against the DVIIF :shock:
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#29 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 17:27

albatross dv series is supposed to be historically inferior to all allied types of the time. It was one of Germany's mistakes (not developing new type sooner).

True. A typical tactic in the D.Va was to run away from Camels, declining combat if they didn't have an advantage.

You can dive away, you just have to hope not to have some kill-greedy suicidal bastard after you :) IRL people were probably a lot more cautious so I guess they would often not pursue.

I'm not going to comment because that would involve a direct comparison between historical examples and RoF, and therefore constitute a criticism, and we all know how much I love our dear game…. So, yeah, no comment.

I think I can see where you are going with this and I disagree, I think the human virtual pilot plays a big role. But I guess we will have to stop here and agree to disagree :)
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#30 DidNotFinish

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 21:29

Honestly, if you train yourself on that poor little N17, you can take on an Albatros, an EIII, and a Dr.1. It's 100% practice. :) I can set up a fight with 15 Albs against 15 N17s and I can shoot 'em up until I run outta ammo. That's about 2 or 3 kills for me, I know others here seem to be able to handplace their bullets into the enemy and knock then out with a few hits.
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#31 J2_squid

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 00:02

Good post!

If I may, heres mine.

1: You have an altitude advantage

2: You have friends to help you out

3: You rely on your performance advantage to sort the above two out.
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#32 BlackSwan

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 00:07

If you’re in the N28 facing the DVIIF there’s a simple good move you can do, it works every time…
Get to low altitude, about 30m max
Find something soft to fly over like haystacks or something, roll inverted and fall out of your aircraft.
It’s risky but you’ve got a better chance of survival than against the DVIIF :shock:


LMAO….
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#33 J2_squid

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 00:11

Actually i feel the need to extrapolate

N17 vs D2. Clime mofo climb. If you even try to dogfight your dead meat. That said ive shot down D3's in the N17 through judicious use of rudder. I wouldnt recommend it but you have an advantage, use it.

Vs the camel your in trouble. This is historically correct. If you dont have height you have nothing. Go in mob handed. Remember you can always scissor. But on paper you will usually lose if you ever venture to enter an equal energy situation

N28? I love it. Dive down and shoot that fokker down. If you fail extend up high. You need considerable height to do this. But rememeber you are facing the best fighter of the war in one that was considered poor.
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#34 lorddweeb

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 00:31

I mostly agree with the initial post in terms of turn and burn/mix and match type dogfights. (Although, I've found that with practice the Dvas stability and decent if unexceptional performance can actually make it quite a handful for a camel.)

However, if an ace boom and zoom pilot is around I actually am starting to think the spad vs. anything except a 7f is the most lopsided. Two aces facing off in a turn fight in any two planes will often find a way to make the match closer than you would expect. However a bnz ace in a spad is basically unstoppable so long as he dosen't get bounced before he gets his initial alt.
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#35 gavagai

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 01:24

However, if an ace boom and zoom pilot is around I actually am starting to think the spad vs. anything except a 7f is the most lopsided.

Shhhhhhh! Don't give away the secret of the Spad!

What are some other nearly perfectly balanced matchups?
SE5a vs. D.XII

That is just nutty unless you mean at 2km and above.

Honestly, if you train yourself on that poor little N17, you can take on an Albatros, an EIII, and a Dr.1. It's 100% practice. :) I can set up a fight with 15 Albs against 15 N17s and I can shoot 'em up until I run outta ammo. That's about 2 or 3 kills for me, I know others here seem to be able to handplace their bullets into the enemy and knock then out with a few hits.
I wouldn't normally point it out, but I'm number 11 for the N17 on the leaderboard. :) If you're talking about AI, which it seems like you are, there's no comparison to human opponents.

Albatros D.Va vs. Nieuport 28 is probably the most balanced matchup in the sim.

What are some other nearly perfectly balanced matchups?

With Matt, I like the Dr1 vs Camel matchup (though I suck in the Dr1 and usually die). The Pfalz D.IIIa can also put up a fight against the SE5 and Spad because of its ability to stand on its tail for a belly shot (much better than the Albatrosses), its durability in a dive, and quick, precise roll response. The Dolphin vs D.VII also seems good, though I haven't had much opportunity for it.
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#36 MattM

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 16:14

That is just nutty unless you mean at 2km and above.
He didn't say which is the most balanced matchup at ground-level.

With both planes, climbing to 1500-2000 meters is no problem at all and at that altitude, the planes are very similar, with the SE being better below and the D.XII being better above that altitude.
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#37 JG1_Butzzell

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 18:38

S! All

Not sure what is up with the N-17. I will look at specs again but I thought it was suposed to outclimb the albs. That means I think it should be a fair match with the Alb D.II and D.III so it probably needs a look at.

Camel has all the virtues and none of the really bad traits as mentioned before. Have seen one Camel destroy 3 Alb D.Vs.

Back on track- I think worst match ups is a complaint against online servers. When you see a server that has DH2, N11 vs Fokker E3 you think that is going to be ok but maybe a little hard in an E3. Then you notice it is Dh2, N11 and N17 versus Fokker E 3 and Ab D2 and you think that is gona be tough for the N17. Then you see there are only 2 Alb D.II available and you realize the match up is N11 , N17 versus Fokker E3 and it is really stupid.

Same thing with fast planes , SE5a, SPAD 13 and Dolphin vs Alb D.V and Pfalz D.III with maybe some Pfalz D.XII. No Fokker D.VIIf? The only plane to really compete with the those Entente planes is the Fokker D.VIIf. You know the deck is stacked. The Fokker D7 is a dog. Should not be on a server. The D7f should be and rarely is or is in limited numbers.

Wherever Camels are available you should see Fokker Dr.1 and or Fokker D.VIII in eaqual numbers.

The BEST matchups are DH2 vs Fokker E.III, N-28 vs Alb D.III, Camel vs Dr.1, SE5a vs Fokker D.VIIf. The SE5a vs Alb D.III is not a great match up but can be very hair raising and a true chalenge for the Alb.

The problem in setting up a server is to be able to offer planes that people will have and still have good matches. Not an easy thing to do and in some cases nearly imposible. As the game becomes more popular and people set up more servers we will see a variety of conditions and matches. This will lead to new venues with closer match ups, historical recreations and good fun for all.

S!
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#38 BlackSparrow

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 20:56

The Camel is the best all around Plane in the Game DUH!!!! :roll:
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#39 I/JG53_Kurtz

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:35

My thought about the most lopsided matchups:

1- Albatros D.II/III vs Sopwith Pup
in my opinion this is by far the worst matchup for a central Power pilot. The Pup is faster, more manoeuvrable and outclimbed any Albatros. Superior armament and strenght of the Albatros are not enough. I can win against the Pup only with a surprise attack from 6 o'clock, if it fails i'm dead!

2- Albatros D.Va vs Sopwith Camel
Slightly more balanced but still difficult…
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#40 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:38

It becomes very unbalanced for the Pup when it turns into a 4 vs 4. Just don't fly alone.
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