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#121 Panthercules

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 22:38

The funny thing is, that he only time I'm sure for the kill and I know it's just a matter of time to prevail, is when they start to manoeuvre, because the rear gunner then, ceases fire. I follow them aiming, with deflection, at the center of their upper wing. Two or three bursts and it snaps off. ;)
I stay away from them when in formation and only if I have speed, height advantage I BnZ taking repeated snapshots till they brake off the formation. (it works better when your wingmen are doing so keeping the gunners occupied.
I never try to attack from below, (blind spot), as the gunners fire at me from impossible to aim angles and I most often end up severely damaged or dead. :?


Well, of course if they're firing at us through their own fuselages or doing similar crazy things with their guns, it makes it kind of tough to apply rational tactics ourselves - hopefully this will get sorted soon.
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#122 Criquet

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:02

In french sorry

j'ai fait plus de 20 track a l'époque pour détecter si le mitrailleur tirait a travers le fuselage, en pilotant moi même un avion "invulnérable" et tournoyant autour du biplace, je n'ai rien détecté de récurrent.
je les ai regardé avec minutie a vitesse lente etc… pourtant,

J'ai aussi observer les angles de tir avec et sans mods, sans mod ils sont trop limité, le tireur souvent reste sans rien faire alors qu'il a un bon angle de tir.

pour la précision, pensez qu'un avion volant a 190 km/h en poursuite d'un avion volant a 140 km/h ne se rapproche qu'a 50 KM/h, ce qui est très lent et offre une cible facile pour un mitrailleur.

en 14/18 le poste de mitrailleur arrière etait très efficace, et la plupart des assaillant devait rompre le combat. D'après un rapport d'un As français, pour les très bon pilotes l'échec etait de 9 fois sur 10. Les biplaces n'ont jamais été des pigeons d'argile
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#123 elephant

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:34

Criquet wrote:
I made more than 20 track has the time to detect whether the gunner fired through the fuselage, flying a plane myself, "invulnerable" and circled around the two-seater, I did not detect recurrent.
I watched carefully to slow speed etc. … Yet

I also observe the firing angles with and without mods, no mod they are too limited, the shooter often remains idle while it has a good shooting angle.

for precision, consider a plane flying at 190 mph in pursuit of a plane flying a 140 km / h comes close at 50 km / h, which is very slow and offers an easy target for a gunner.

14/18 in the rear gunner position was very effective, and most of the assailant had broken combat. According to a report from a French ace, for very good drivers failure was 9 times out of 10. Two seaters were never clay pigeons.


I can't disagree with your reasonable arguements, I only fly with your mod on, after all.
My only objection is when they fire almost vertically downwards, (as gavagai's pic shows, I don't claim they fire through the fuselage), they can't be so deadly as they can't aim from those angles. They can hit only by chance… I don't know if anything can be done about it. You are the Expert. ;)
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#124 gavagai

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 16:02

Criquet,

Le probleme est plutot les autres chasseurs AI. Sans mods, ils sont tues par le mitrailleur bien tot. Avec vos mods, ils n'ont aucune chance, parce que ils ne savent pas bien attaquer.

Si je pourrais mieux commander les chassuers AI, nous pourrions eviter les biplaces, mais a ce moment les chasseurs AI font ce qu'ils veulent quand ils voient un avion enemmi.

J'essayerai une fois encore avec vos mods pour les mitrailleurs, et je donnerai un rapport de ce que je vois.
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#125 Criquet

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 16:18

sorry, in french, encore… :)

attention au Bréguet XIV, le système qui sert a manoeuvrer les mitrailleuses offrent la possibilité de tirer vers le bas. sur les cotés de l'avion, les armes peuvent basculer en pointant vers le dessous a la verticale, je m'en suis aperçus sur des tracks. le DFW ne peut pas le faire
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#126 gavagai

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 16:29

Donc, bien qu'il resemble que les mitrailleurs tirent a travers le fuselage (une limitation graphique), en realite ils pouvaient vraiment tirer au dessous?
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#127 gavagai

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 19:26

Voila!

Attached File  2010_11_26__19_22_42.PNG   1.12MB   466 downloads
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#128 =Fifi=

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 22:06

Voila!

On the 2 machines gun, maybe only one is able to fire on this picture? :?
I don't know if they are modelled separatly…
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#129 elephant

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 22:53

Even so, this angle of fire is practically impossible, as the twin gun system should have stopped against the fuselage in a shallower angle, not to mention that from such angle no true aim is possible in reality…
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#130 =Fifi=

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 23:28

Even so, this angle of fire is practically impossible, as the twin gun system should have stopped against the fuselage in a shallower angle, not to mention that from such angle no true aim is possible in reality…

Right, Elephant ;)
What i was wondering is: is the gunner able to fire, because one of the two machine gun is canvas free, and is the second one (stocked in canvas) not firing?
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#131 Laser

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 23:43

What happens if the AI 2-seater files are *NOT* deleted, and/or if they don't exist, someone creates them outside of the packed archives, with their default values (explicit files)? Maybe the default ones aren't taken into consideration once other files are out-of-the-archives. I don't know if i'm clear (even the idea is blurred :P )
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#132 elephant

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 00:01

=Fifi= , It is possible to be that case I dont know…Anyway, the problem to be solved is that the guns shouldn't be able to reach at and be fired from that angle by default…

Laser, :?
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#133 =Fifi=

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 04:36

Well, this problem seems only about the Breguet…and i really don't know what Criquet did change in its file…
Sorry, for the moment i'm glued… :?
I don't even have the stock file to compare what was changed.
Maybe someone could compare, and fix the issue with new file?
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#134 gavagai

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 04:39

Criquet seems to be claiming that the Breguet gunner really could fire below. If that's the case, then what he implemented should stay, no matter how funny it looks.
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#135 =Fifi=

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 04:43

Criquet seems to be claiming that the Breguet gunner really could fire below. If that's the case, then what he implemented should stay, no matter how funny it looks.

Perso i don't mind this behavior…but i understand some other would bother ;)
It makes 2 seaters really dangerous, and i like that :D
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#136 gavagai

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 05:54

As I said in French (probably badly), the problem isn't for us; it's our AI wingmen who get cut to pieces.
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#137 =Fifi=

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 06:09

No, you tell it right :) …but i don't know what to say, as i don't know how to solve this :?
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#138 elephant

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 09:37

Criquet seems to be claiming that the Breguet gunner really could fire below. If that's the case, then what he implemented should stay, no matter how funny it looks.

I think that your example has already established that the guns are fired from impossible angles. ;)
What I'm saying and I will say it once more, is not that the Breguet gunner souldn't be able to fire backwards but from that steep angles the fire is impossible to be aimed. :?
If that kind of fix can be programmed it would be a fine addition if not we'll have to live with it; end of story.
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#139 Criquet

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 10:24

Il y a des possibilités de donner des champs limités aux mitrailleurs, mais sans explication précises ds fonctions par neoqb, cela demande des heures et des heures de test.
Comme je disait et le montre le screen, le breguet peut tirer le long du fuselage et vient buté un peu trop loin dans celui ci.

Il y aurait moyen d'ajuster mais ce n'est pas une catastrophe, Il s'agit de quelques degrés,si vous pensez que les mitrailleurs sont avantagés par ces quelques degrés dans un angles rarement utilisé et que c'est la cause de tous vos échecs,Il est facile de retirer les fichiers.

Sinon le fait de tirer vers le bas pour le breguet n'est pas impossible au contraire (hors fuselage bien sur) mais le système de support de MG (dont je ne me souvient plus du nom) avait été fort bien conçus pour riposter a toutes sorte d'attaque) j'avais vu sur un film d'époque une démonstration, il etait possible de pointer tout azimut.
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#140 =Fifi=

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 10:47

Criquet, le probleme apparement n'est pas pour le pilote humain…plutôt pour les IA amis qui se font descendre comme des lapins, avec l'angle de tir tres "pointu" des breguets…
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#141 elephant

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 10:50

Criquet wrote: "j'avais vu sur un film d'époque une démonstration, il etait possible de pointer tout azimut."
in English: "I had seen on a period film a demonstration, it was possible to point to any azimuth."

I say, in a rather exaggerated example, you can fire a gun around a corner but you can't aim your shot… :)
OK Criquet understood, not a big deal anyway we can live with it… ;)
Thanks for what you have done so far, your work is invaluable… :D
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#142 gavagai

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 14:36

Criquet, je suis satisfait de vos explications. Merci!
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#143 Criquet

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 16:13

Merci pour les traductions et vos feedback, j'ai bon espoir de reprendre ce mods en 2011, si je pouvais avoir l'aide de neoqb sur les détails de certains paramètres (au lieu de multiplier les test souvent infructueux pour en trouver plus ou moins la fonction) nous avancerions a pas de géant.

pour les AI qui se font avoir, je n'ai as de solution, comme dans d'autres sim(IL2 par exemple)Ils se collent derrière, ce qui est la pire chose a faire, mais la ce n'est pas dans les fichiers disponibles que se trouve la solution. Je n'ai accès a aucun paramètre qui pourrait les rendre plus prudent ou attaquer de façon différente, désolé.
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#144 J2_squid

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 16:22

Je suis désolé pour cette traduction pauvre. Son du babelfish. Quelles conversations avez-vous eues avec Neoqb concernant votre mod ? Avez-vous discuté ceci avec Han ? T'a-t-il fourni plus loin l'aide ou l'information sur ce que les paramètres font ? Whist Han est extrêmement occupé avec la nouvelle mise à jour et carrière, je pense qu'après il peut y avoir plus d'heure d'aider. Si vous souhaitez est-ce que je pourrais essayer d'appeler son attention sur elle par nouvelle année ?
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#145 elephant

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 16:34

That would be great…
I'll keep my fingers crossed. :)
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#146 =Fifi=

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 21:59

Je suis désolé pour cette traduction pauvre. Son du babelfish. Quelles conversations avez-vous eues avec Neoqb concernant votre mod ? Avez-vous discuté ceci avec Han ? T'a-t-il fourni plus loin l'aide ou l'information sur ce que les paramètres font ? Whist Han est extrêmement occupé avec la nouvelle mise à jour et carrière, je pense qu'après il peut y avoir plus d'heure d'aider. Si vous souhaitez est-ce que je pourrais essayer d'appeler son attention sur elle par nouvelle année ?

Yes good idea, would be nice of you! We can now wait next year anyway…
PS: your french isn't bad 8-)
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#147 Criquet

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 19:00

Pour répondre a j2-Squid, en effet j'aurais eu besoin de renseignements complémentaires, de détails etc… sur les paramètres des fichiers AI.

mais je repasserais dans quelques mois, car pour l'instant je n'ai pas de PC, pas de jeu, donc je ne peut rien faire. merci
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#148 J2_squid

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 19:15

Bon!

Laisse jeter un autre coup d'oeil à ceci par nouvelle année. Je remercie le votre de votre dur labeur et continue à apprécier votre excellent mod. Salut
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#149 pollux18

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 09:30

Vivement l'année prochaine alors et le retour de Crickey :)

En attendant les futures patch, c'est grâce au son MOD IA que je ne me suis pas lassé de ROF.
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#150 pollux18

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 13:47

It seems that the AI Mod Crickey no longer compatible with the 1016?

When I launch a mission to Mod ON, I return to the main menu.
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#151 elephant

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 14:26

I had the exact same problem with Mods on in 1.016…
I had to reinstall the whole game again to find out what it was finally.
From apost to =Fifi= that suggested it might be Crickey's mdcausing the problem:
"I solved my problem with "Mods on" mode.
It was Criquet's mod after all.(I had pasted the whole old Luascripts containing v.1.015 snapviews folder as well, that was interfering with the new 1.016 installation…
If you are using AI mod you might have to disable the worldobjects folder as it causes a graphical glitch, (misplacement of the rear gunners), with 1.016. ;)"
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#152 gavagai

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 15:41

Yeah, I saw that the gunners were in the wrong place on the Breguet. Fortunately, there were no other problems running mods-on.
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#153 =Fifi=

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 21:11

If you are using AI mod you might have to disable the worldobjects folder as it causes a graphical glitch, (misplacement of the rear gunners), with 1.016.

Just deleting worldobjects folder in luascript is ok, then?
No interference with mods off doing that?
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#154 elephant

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Posted 06 December 2010 - 22:36

No, not at all… the only thing to lose is the rear gunners deadly accuracy,
at least until Criquet updates his AI mod… :P
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#155 =Fifi=

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 07:18

Hmmm…is it me, or the AIs in mods off are better than 1.015??
Didn't see any official annoncement about, in the list change, but they seem to react a bit better…at least they don't dive like crazy to ground anymore…
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#156 HotTom

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 07:19

Hmmm…is it me, or the AIs in mods off are better than 1.015??
Didn't see any official annoncement about, in the list change, but they seem to react a bit better…at least they don't dive like crazy to ground anymore…

I thought so, too…but I'm sure they would have announced it.

I tossed the world objects folder.

Great suggestion!

Thx!

HT
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#157 hq_Reflected

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 07:29

I haven't seen them dive down either, but when I set up 10 aces against me (I wanted to try the new flames effect and extinguish them) and I flew in wide circles throttled down, it took them 2 minutes to shoot me down :?
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#158 =Fifi=

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 07:38

They were so surprised to see you flying like that! :lol:
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#159 gavagai

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 02:40

I haven't seen them dive down either, but when I set up 10 aces against me (I wanted to try the new flames effect and extinguish them) and I flew in wide circles throttled down, it took them 2 minutes to shoot me down :?

Oh yeah, the AI are still 90% retarded. The only thing they're good at is landing shots that no human would contemplate; and whatever humans can do easily, they cannot.
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#160 Panthercules

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Posted 08 December 2010 - 02:47

Yeah - the AI have still been diving down the the weeds on the 3 or 4 career mode missions I've flown so far to test various graphics settings with 1.016, so I'd guess there wasn't much change in AI behavior yet. I didn't really expect it before the new career mode, and I assume they're going to have to fix it in that release.
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