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#81 Criquet

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 22:11

ha ben si ça roule ok c'est super.
tiens bonne idée la Calédonie, merci
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#82 elephant

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 00:03

Thanks! :D
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#83 Eckhart

Eckhart
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Posted 16 October 2010 - 00:37

I recommand this one instead of Crickey's "Sop2.rar", cause of a little mistake he made in the Triplan file (called "Sop Pup" instead of "Sop Triplane" so i don't think the file was recognised by game)

c'est quoi l'erreur, stp ? je pourrais peut-être corriger (avant lundi)

J'espere qu'il ne t'es rien arrivé de trop grave?
non, pas d'inquiétude, merci ;) mais je cherche n'importe quel travail en dehors du territoire de la métropole ;)


La nouvelle Calédonie comme dit Fifi est une très bonne solution mais il y aussi la belle province. Bien sur sans le sable chaud mais le Québec n'est pas mal non plus. J'ai fait le grand saut il y a quatre ans (avec un atterrissement chez les anglophones) et je ne le regrette surement pas…. ;)

Cheers,

Eckhart
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#84 =Fifi=

=Fifi=
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Posted 16 October 2010 - 06:01

Quebec is surely nice (but too cold for me :D ) I love Canada anyway!
So you're an "expat" too…We made (with my wife and daughter) the big jump 4 years ago too! No regrets as you 8-)
New Caledonia was easier for us cause of French language here (mainly for my daughter school) but we can practice English with the Aussies coming for holidays, or few Kiwis…
Sorry for this little off topic :oops:
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#85 Eckhart

Eckhart
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Posted 17 October 2010 - 04:41

Hehe Fifi…exactly my philosophy…jets, internet and global economy help you to get all the good stuff from home and keep the bad one out. We should set up a thread about all the expat who are on this forum. I guess we are quite a bunch….and usually the more daring and active ones. Looking at what is going on in good ol' Europe, I think we got on the boat just in time Fifi….

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Cheers,

Eckhart
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#86 =Fifi=

=Fifi=
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Posted 17 October 2010 - 05:10

Looking at what is going on in good ol' Europe, I think we got on the boat just in time Fifi….

:lol: Old Europe can still develop without us…toward good or bad :mrgreen:
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#87 BigDuke66

BigDuke66
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Posted 17 October 2010 - 06:46

Nice for you two but some are stuck here :( well taken hostage maybe fits better :twisted:
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#88 Raptor341

Raptor341
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Posted 31 October 2010 - 01:41

does this work in campaign mode? or not recommended for it
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#89 =Fifi=

=Fifi=
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Posted 31 October 2010 - 04:44

does this work in campaign mode? or not recommended for it

It works for campaign, career, QMB…all modes, but only "mods on" of course!
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#90 gavagai

gavagai
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Posted 11 November 2010 - 17:01

Awesome. Does this latest version include adjustments to the D.XII? I remember that BnZ fighter was overlooked in the past.

OK gents, new Triplane and Pup avalaible here, with the all pack up to date Version 6:



Unzip and put the "ai" folder and "worldobjects" folder in your ROF/data/luascripts folder

I recommand this one instead of Crickey's "Sop2.rar", cause of a little mistake he made in the Triplan file (called "Sop Pup" instead of "Sop Triplane" so i don't think the file was recognised by game)

NOTE: this mod is to be used (as Crickey said) with created missions (SP or MP), or QMB but at least with different skill levels involved together for best enjoyment.

QMB 1 vs 1 isn't representative of the mod, and original ROF AIs may be better for 1 vs 1.
Best is to set 5 vs 5 or more, with skill level on random (with the "?")
Enjoy ;)

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#91 gavagai

gavagai
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Posted 13 November 2010 - 18:47

I'm sorry, but I'm going to remove the two-seater mods.

What we have in the current mod pack makes the Breguet far more dangerous than any single seat fighter. The AI easily fires to its low 6 o'clock now, and can switch from starboard to port very quickly.
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#92 elephant

elephant
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Posted 13 November 2010 - 19:19

I have noticed this too…
I can only engage Breguets only with a significant altitude and speed advantage or if they are manoeuring hardly and the gunner ceases fire…Otherwise I'm dead meat most of the times.
So I would apreciate a fine tunning to the Breguet gunners.
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#93 gavagai

gavagai
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Posted 13 November 2010 - 19:29

I removed the Breguet and DFW files, and the gunners still fire to their low 6 as if they have a tunnel gun.

What do I do? If I can't fix this, I'm not going to use the AI mod. If I don't have the AI mod, no campaign generator missions, etc.
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#94 =Fifi=

=Fifi=
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Posted 13 November 2010 - 21:03

I don't know how/what Cricket did for tuning 2 seaters, but i think just delete the plane file (caeroplane) would do the trick to bring back normal AI.
Perso, i like it the way they can fire (imo they don't fire through canvas anyway) and 2 seaters were very dangerous for fighters even in WW1…most of all when flying in formations.
At their first attempt firing at us, we can quickly deduce what skill level the gunner has, and maybe brake the fight rather than risk to loose our plane ;)

As he said earlier, Criquet is out for an unspecified time, so as i don't know about his files changes, you'll have to wait his come back fo further information (as me).

EDIT: Wondering about the recovering button (launcher): maybe it would replace the files?… :?
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#95 Raptor341

Raptor341
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Posted 13 November 2010 - 21:10

I dont mind the gunners being more reactive, in normal mode they hardly did. ( save for early ROF, they were VERY good in 1.00, they had tunnel guns then, lol ) As long as they cant fire "through" the aircraft, but i have not tested it yet, anyone know? Just got this AI mod,
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#96 gavagai

gavagai
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Posted 13 November 2010 - 22:20

Well, what they do now is highly unrealistic. It's one thing to be able to fire to low port or starboard, it's another to be able to switch back and forth without delay. Moreover, the pilot doesn't even have to bank his aircraft in order for the gunner to fire to straight 6 o'clock low.

Fifi, I deleted the aircraft files for the DFW and Breguet, and the gunners were still firing the same as before. Very strange…
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#97 =Fifi=

=Fifi=
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Posted 13 November 2010 - 22:49

Fifi, I deleted the aircraft files for the DFW and Breguet, and the gunners were still firing the same as before. Very strange…

Indeed…Without the modified file, i don't understand why the game still use it!!
Maybe try the recovery button :?
As soon as i'll be in touch with Criquet, i'll ask him about.
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#98 Raptor341

Raptor341
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Posted 14 November 2010 - 22:57

they can fire right through the aircraft?
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#99 =Fifi=

=Fifi=
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Posted 14 November 2010 - 23:14

they can fire right through the aircraft?

Not their own, but yours!! :D
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#100 gavagai

gavagai
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Posted 15 November 2010 - 16:27

they can fire right through the aircraft?

It's more like the gunner is hanging his Lewis guns over the side of the aircraft, like the rear turrets on the Me-410. Now, imagine lugging >26kg up and down, back and forth, 4km up in the air. The two-seater AI mod has basically given us robo-gunners.
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#101 elephant

elephant
  • Posts: 1156

Posted 15 November 2010 - 17:01

I can confirm that, I have seen them too…
They are holding the gun over their heads in a position that nobody can possibly aim and getting you when trying to make a sneak attack from behind low.
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#102 J.j.

J.j.
  • Posts: 1959

Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:04

Try this

Be sure to make a copy of the original and Criquet files before unzipping into ROF installation directory.

Attached Files


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#103 elephant

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 20:49

Will do…Thanks!
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#104 gavagai

gavagai
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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:17

Thanks, will try it out. Now I see that I was removing the wrong file earlier, didn't realize the correct file was in World Objects.

I see the lines that you edited, and I'm going to try the same values for the DFW.
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#105 J.j.

J.j.
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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:29

I see the lines that you edited, and I'm going to try the same values for the DFW.

The DFW looks ok in my opinion, perhaps because the field of fire of the gunner is much more limited.
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#106 gavagai

gavagai
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Posted 15 November 2010 - 21:56

I see the lines that you edited, and I'm going to try the same values for the DFW.

The DFW looks ok in my opinion, perhaps because the field of fire of the gunner is much more limited.

Ok, hadn't tried the DFW yet. I'll set it back to the 0.0 values.
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#107 gavagai

gavagai
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Posted 16 November 2010 - 01:13

Something tells me it didn't work:

Attached File  breguet.PNG   1.69MB   458 downloads

:lol:

But at least I know which files to delete now.

————-

I know the stock AI gunners are a bit sluggish, but they still tear your AI wingmen to shreds. Sometimes we have to compromise and match idiots with idiots.
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#108 J.j.

J.j.
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Posted 16 November 2010 - 19:36

He shoots you like this? lol :mrgreen:
I thought it was good, I'll try to modify and do some tests, but not till the end of the week.
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#109 Raptor341

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 01:57

Roger, that kind of gunner i wasnt talking about. ! lol Ive seen it now, good screen by the way. Was i ment was that stock AI gunners dont always seem "scared" enough, meaning that they should try to fire a bit more wildly when attacked close in. However, stock AI is good in the fact that they need time to move the gun, its hard to aim and so on, which from what ive read is completely realistic to what it was like trying to fight with a manualy aimed gun in the back of a pitching and moving aircraft. The very fact that it takes them time to bring the gun to bear when the aircraft is moving is very realsitic, you try moving a heavy object while in flight.

At the end of testing ive found stock AI to be much more realistic, given the challanges of a gunner in RL, the AI mod makes it bot gunners, but im sure they can fix it for the next release right? or just leave the 2 seaters out i guess.

(even in ww2ol air combat vs human gunners they hardly ever hit you due to the fact of how difficult it can be to aim and react in the fast moving air combat, however, in ww1 they were alot more deadly. ) The only time i dont worry too much about the rear gunner is during air combat manuvering, where he cant really aim. When they are in formation,its a different story.
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#110 gavagai

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 03:25

(even in ww2ol air combat vs human gunners they hardly ever hit you due to the fact of how difficult it can be to aim and react in the fast moving air combat, however, in ww1 they were alot more deadly. ) The only time i dont worry too much about the rear gunner is during air combat manuvering, where he cant really aim. When they are in formation,its a different story.

Glad to hear they only have human gunners in WW2OL. I've tried explaining to Il-2 folks how idiotically good the Il-2 AI gunners are, but to no avail, because most of that community has little experience attacking bombers with human gunners.

With some exceptions, most of the human gunners I've encountered in flight sims can't hit squat unless both their aircraft and the attacker are holding perfectly still.
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#111 J2_squid

J2_squid
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Posted 20 November 2010 - 14:57

Cant belive I missed this! Been busy testing and it must of flown past me.

This is awesome! Whats the situation regarding having this accepted into Mods On mode?

Also on another question with Patwilsons CG, does anyone know if it assigns different skill levels to the AI or are they all just at the lowest? I really want to use this to bring my campaigns to life again, I read somewhere that Elephant alters the AI levels in GC, does anyone know how to?

Many thanks and a tip of the hat to gavagai for highlighting this :)
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#112 elephant

elephant
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Posted 20 November 2010 - 15:21

Pat Wilson's Campaign assign every plane, exept the aces involved, with normal skill level, (2) by default.
I did manage to edit the Campaign Generator files to include individual skins to player's squadron as well as to the aces but, unfortunately, the Generator jammed in the third created mission every time, (I don't know why).
So I dropped this method and every time a mission is created I open it with notepad and edit the skins I want, (the generic sqn. skins are allready there) + mix up the AI skill, accordingly.
It may look complicated at first, but it is rather easy and has became kind of rutine for me now…
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#113 J2_squid

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 16:26

Id love to have a crack at this myself elephant, what files exactly are you opening? Where can I find them? Any chance you could post an example of the mission file showing what parameters to edit?

Much Obliged
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#114 elephant

elephant
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Posted 20 November 2010 - 18:17

Here you are:
Go to your game's directory, most likely: Rise of Flight\data\Missions
Into Missions folder you'll find the recently created mission by the Generator.
Should be named after your Campaign's pilot name and the date.
In our example: Franz Sahl 19170614
Open the mission file with Notepad.
Example pic below:

Attached File  RoF Campaign1.jpg   395.98KB   514 downloads

Scroll down till you find this section:

Plane
{
Name = "Hptn. Franz Sahl"; name edited
Index = 15566;
LinkTrId = 15565;
XPos = 216075.66571251242;
YPos = 0.0;
ZPos = 88013.92804094397;
XOri = 0.0;
YOri = 254.0;
ZOri = 0.0;
Script = "LuaScripts\WorldObjects\albatrosd3.txt";
Model = "graphics\planes\albatrosd3\albatrosd3.mgm";
Country = 501;
Desc = "";
Skin = "albatrosd3\501012b_a04.dds"; skin edited
AILevel = 0;
CoopStart = 0;
NumberInFormation = 0;
Vulnerable = 1;
Engageable = 1;
LimitAmmo = 1;
StartInAir = 0;
Time = 60;
DamageReport = 50;
DamageThreshold = 1;
PayloadId = 0;
AiRTBDecision = 1;
DeleteAfterDeath = 1;
}

The first "Plane" section you encounter scrolling down is your own flight.
(your own plane if you are leading).
Don't change the AI level in your own plane, must be always 0 = player
Scroll down some more to find your squadmates as well.
Your Squadmates have randomised skill level by default in RoF Campaign.
I usually edit their skins only and abrevating their ranks, because their names sometimes appear cut off in icons. If you assign individual skins to your squadmates though and can remember who is who,actually, you may need no icons enabled to be able to write your report afterwards. ;)
It's up to you.
In the same way you can edit every plane in the mission.

Example with the opposition:

Plane
{
Name = "soptrip.RNAS 8"; name edited
Index = 15666;
LinkTrId = 15665;
XPos = 219840.11806365958;
YPos = 355.0;
ZPos = 58526.55991396446;
XOri = 0.0;
YOri = 0.0;
ZOri = 0.0;
Script = "LuaScripts\WorldObjects\soptriplane.txt";
Model = "graphics\planes\soptriplane\soptriplane.mgm";
Country = 102;
Desc = " of RNAS 8 / 208 RAF";
Skin = "soptriplane\102000_000.dds";
AILevel = 3; skill edited
CoopStart = 0;
NumberInFormation = 0;
Vulnerable = 1;
Engageable = 1;
LimitAmmo = 1;
StartInAir = 1;
Time = 60;
DamageReport = 50;
DamageThreshold = 1;
PayloadId = 0;
AiRTBDecision = 1;
DeleteAfterDeath = 1;
}

And so on…
I hope it helped.
Look also at previous posts, (previous page if not so wrong), at this topic about how to enable The Pup and Tripe into RoF Campaign. ;)

Another Idea I come up with right now, (I haven't tested it yet), is to simulate plane type transition and have mixed flights!
Example:
…….
Script = "LuaScripts\WorldObjects\albatrosd5.txt";
Model = "graphics\planes\albatrosd3\albatrosd5.mgm";
…….
Remember to edit the skin also with the correct path given, (Skin = "albatrosd5\skin_name.dds";), otherwise the default skin will appear.
By editing these lines should be able to create a mixed flight of Alb. D3s and D5s,
or D5s and Dr.1s or whatever else you want.
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#115 J2_squid

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 18:23

Excellent thank you elephant. You are a gentleman and scholar sir :D

S!
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#116 gavagai

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 16:09

I think I've asked before, but is it possible to increase the AI's turn rate in all aircraft? Currently, the AI turn their aircraft rather gently, which makes them easier to shoot down.
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#117 =Fifi=

=Fifi=
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Posted 23 November 2010 - 21:18

The AI easily fires to its low 6 o'clock now, and can switch from starboard to port very quickly.

Gav, had Criquet answer on french forum, and he didn't change the gunner switch side speed.
At first he would like to, but finaly he didn't.

In fact it depends mainly on the AI 2 seater skill level. Aces are very tough to approach while novice/normal are still quite easy imho.
Perso, when i realise it's an ace level, i tend now to fire long range shots.
I avoid any close approach ;)
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#118 Panthercules

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 21:57

While working on a couple of Pup skins, I was reading a rather interesting excerpt from "Notes on Aerial Fighting in Formation" by Flt. Lt. C R Mackenzie of 8 Naval Squadron (RNAS) - in it, he had something of an equivalent set of rules to the Dicta Boelke, a couple of which were the following:

"2. Do not press an attack on a two-seater who fires at you before you are in a perfect position. Break away and attack him or another Hostile Aircraft later with a chance of surprise."

and

"3. Do not stay to maneuver with a two-seater."

I know I have been guilty of violating both of these maxims, and I think it's way too easy in the game to fixate on trying to get a kill once we find some of these buggers instead of following rational combat tactices such as the above, and then we tend to complain about it when they shoot us down.

Of course, it would be nice to see the 2-seater AI perhaps tweaked to make it a little easier to surprise them, and to make them more likely to bolt for home if they get attacked - perhaps if they exhibited what seems to be more rational behavior it would be easier for us to do the same.
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#119 gavagai

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 22:16

The AI easily fires to its low 6 o'clock now, and can switch from starboard to port very quickly.

Gav, had Criquet answer on french forum, and he didn't change the gunner switch side speed.
At first he would like to, but finaly he didn't.

In fact it depends mainly on the AI 2 seater skill level. Aces are very tough to approach while novice/normal are still quite easy imho.
Perso, when i realise it's an ace level, i tend now to fire long range shots.
I avoid any close approach ;)

Right, I realize now that I was mistaken; the AI is firing through its fuselage.
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#120 elephant

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 22:31

The funny thing is, that he only time I'm sure for the kill and I know it's just a matter of time to prevail, is when they start to manoeuvre, because the rear gunner then, ceases fire. I follow them aiming, with deflection, at the center of their upper wing. Two or three bursts and it snaps off. ;)
I stay away from them when in formation and only if I have speed, height advantage I BnZ taking repeated snapshots till they brake off the formation. (it works better when your wingmen are doing so keeping the gunners occupied.
I never try to attack from below, (blind spot), as the gunners fire at me from impossible to aim angles and I most often end up severely damaged or dead. :?
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