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How to land and taxi a Camel


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#1 catchov

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 13:42

In line with Requiem's excellent educational videos I've put this quick video together to demonstrate how to expertly minimise your rollout whilst geting to the mess swiftly in some style. You too can be a flyboy with a cheeky grin that dames cannot ignore :)

Tongue was firmly implanted in cheek during filming. Just a bit of fun actually :lol:


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#2 JoeCrow

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 17:12

In line with Requiem's excellent educational videos I've put this quick video together to demonstrate how to expertly minimise your rollout whilst geting to the mess swiftly in some style. You too can be a flyboy with a cheeky grin that dames cannot ignore :)

Tongue was firmly implanted in cheek during filming. Just a bit of fun actually :lol:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=j3rPXI6hjEI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

:lol: :lol:

I usually spin in through the roof!
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#3 J2_squid

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 19:39

Lol cool Catchov. Enjoyed that one.
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#4 HotTom

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 19:52

Excellent and great fun!

Thanks!

HT
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#5 -Requiem-

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 20:13

Nice Catchov! Nothing better than doing some doughnuts on the field sometimes :)
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#6 =MFC=Gunloon

=MFC=Gunloon
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Posted 19 August 2010 - 21:56

Nice Catchov! Nothing better than doing some doughnuts on the field sometimes :)

Yup, I caught that too.

Man, Catchov's gonna want to slug me, flame me or otherwise excoriate my person, but I have some criticisms after seeing that:

At the risk of back seat piloting or being an overly harsh critic, your landing was good right up to when you let it roll to the left and begin to get away from you in the flare…you can see right at about 1:01 where the left wing is already clearly lowering, which led to the left wheel touching first, digging in and beginning the left yaw. Your rollout was short because you first scraped your left wing tip in the incipient ground loop , then overcorrected and dragged the right wingtip much of the way around the 'ground spiral.'

Also, your 'grabbing the stick like a maniac' led you to prematurely apply full aft stick, which jammed the skid to the ground too early and caused that rebounding bounce that got you further into the groundloop. The plane wasn't quite done flying yet; notice how it stayed airborne till you dug the left wheel in, followed closely by the left wingtip.

Requiem's said it before, go for a wheel landing, keep it level in all axes, let the mains touch and then either let the tail drop on its own (his preferred method) or wait until you're CERTAIN the wings aren't generating lift and THEN smoothly apply full aft stick to dig the skid in for braking (my preference).

I'm really not trying to nag, but that landing and rollout was far from perfect. It was more of a groundloop and incipient crash that you got control of at the end, I'm afraid. Had you been in an N17 you'd have destroyed both lower wings.

EDIT- I should add something constructive: you had full right rudder at the beginning of that groundloop, but not enough air over it to be effective. Had you had full or partial throttle in with the blip switch held down, you could have put a quick blast of air over the rudder and straightened out. You'd still have been airborne after the bounce and you would have had to accept a bit longer landing distance while letting the plane settle back down, but you'd have had a lot more control over the situation. Had it been an N17 or 11 you'd still have torn up the lower left wing though, hate to say it.

As to taxiing, there's a lot to say. I noticed your tail was up as you taxied in…might be okay for you but that means the plane is halfway to flying and could get away from a novice awfully fast; the bouncing and rocking confirm you were on the edge of controllability. I was notorious for taxiing fast in my real world flying days ('if the airspeed indicator's not indicating, you're too slow' was the joke) but with these kites you want to take your time and slow the &&%@ down. What's the flippin' hurry? 'Beer waits for no man???' Come now. if you're joking that's one thing, but if you're trying to advise a newcomer that's terrible advice. Two demerits!

Looking around as you advise is fine, but there's more to do. If the tail's down as it should be (AHEM) that big old nose is blocking your forward view.

TIR users can lean from side to side to improve their forward view, but it's not perfect and leaves non-TIR users the distraction of using keys or nothing at all. Taildragger pilots throughout the years have used the simple expedient of S-turning back and forth instead of following a straight line when taxiing to assure a clear forward path. I'd recommend that procedure.

Further, you can control taxi speed perfectly by (beginning from motionless) applying full aft stick, then adding power until the machine just begins to move, then reducing a bit of power. You can then start moving, speed up, slow down or stop all by using fore and aft stick, varying downward pressure on the skid for braking.

With some practice, you can do it my lazy way in the Camel. I go full power out of the blocks and just hold the blip switch down most of the time. With my MS-weakened left hand, I HATE having to jockey the power! In an inline plane, I content myself with the partial power method as described.

A cute video (love the music, can't go wrong with a nice jazzy take on '42nd Street') but I wouldn't be too hot to frame it as a 'how-to' instructional one.

Take heart…you have done well, young padawan…but you are not a Jedi yet.

[MF] Gunloon
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#7 J2_squid

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 22:56

Wise words Gunloon, Landing these planes, is a real challenge. I make it about 70% of the time in my DR1. But the dreaded ground loop is to be feared.

For me I find that landings usually come of best if I pancake into a 3 point touch down. The trick is to hold it feet off the grass until you feel the onset of a stall and then easy back. Once down pull back like there is no tommorow. On the rotaries, Ill keep the throttle open at 25% and use the blip switch to control power and rate of descent. Any more gas and the torque will throw you off.

Make sure youve got plenty of room and once your rolling out keep blipping to throw air over the rudder, keep the stick back in its quite easy to pull alongside the squadron leaders daughter ;)

Just my 10 pence of how I do it, Gunloons the real pilot with experiance.
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#8 =MFC=Gunloon

=MFC=Gunloon
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Posted 19 August 2010 - 23:18

Wise words Gunloon, Landing these planes, is a real challenge. I make it about 70% of the time in my DR1. But the dreaded ground loop is to be feared.

For me I find that landings usually come of best if I pancake into a 3 point touch down. The trick is to hold it feet off the grass until you feel the onset of a stall and then easy back. Once down pull back like there is no tommorow. On the rotaries, Ill keep the throttle open at 25% and use the blip switch to control power and rate of descent. Any more gas and the torque will throw you off.

Make sure youve got plenty of room and once your rolling out keep blipping to throw air over the rudder, keep the stick back in its quite easy to pull alongside the squadron leaders daughter ;)

Just my 10 pence of how I do it, Gunloons the real pilot with experiance.

Thanks, Squid. I really am at my best when it comes to primary instruction, hopefully one day I'll develop combat skills to go with that!

Hey, if you can do 3 pointers successfully and continuously, then it works for you, more power to yez!

I'll still recommend wheel landings as Requiem does to minimize the chance of bumping a wing…the lower wings on the little Nieuports are really made of spun sugar, I swear. I bust enough of them even following my own advice, if it makes you feel any better, catchov, maybe I'll take his advice on just letting the tail settle more ;)

I do try not to be a contentious old frump, but since this was billed as a how-to demonstration video, the fanged CFI in me would not be silenced when I saw the problems here…apologies if I whizzed in yer Wheaties, catchov. I hope you don't sic a witch doctor on me with a curse :lol:

[MF] Gunloon
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#9 J2_squid

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 23:23

Gunloon, trust me on landings any advice is welcome. Ill try the main wheel approach, hopefully it will help my touch downs. At the moment I hold by the "any one you can walk away from" adage. lol
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#10 catchov

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 01:10

Gunloon"]
Man, Catchov's gonna want to slug me, flame me or otherwise excoriate my person, but I have some criticisms after seeing that:

I'm really not trying to nag, but that landing and rollout was far from perfect. It was more of a groundloop and incipient crash ….

:lol: Gunloon no I don't wanna slug ya :lol: It was meant to be a light-hearted joke and you're quite correct. It was a dreadful landing. Everything about it was wrong. I was just taking the mickey and having a bit of fun.

I thought I had made that clear by saying tongue firmly planted in cheek :lol: I hope no-one actually tries to emulate it :?

I just like making entertaining vids when I'm in the mood. If people got a laugh out of it then I achieved my purpose. I leave real educational or historicals vids to Requiem or Gisbod or people of that ilk with actual talent :)
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#11 =MFC=Gunloon

=MFC=Gunloon
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Posted 20 August 2010 - 05:41

O good…I figured by light hearted you just meant the music and text comments ;)

I jumped in on the chance that some new person might take it at face value for an instructional vid.

Hey, from the looks of it that Camel driver had already HAD his beer ration for the day… :lol:

[MF] Gunloon
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#12 NewGuy_

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 21:29

Tell me more about the Squadron Leader's sister….. =) Nice video!
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Something something SPAD. Something something then dive away. 


#13 hq_Jorri

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 21:37

Haha great fun!
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#14 hq_Reflected

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 06:41

Great vid!
On a more serious note: how did real pilots land rotaries? there are several ways to do it in RoF, which one is historical?

-shutting the engine off
-throttling back all the way
-decreasing the revs by the mixture control lever
- good 3/4 throttle + heavy blipping

? :roll:
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#15 JoeCrow

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:37

Great vid!
On a more serious note: how did real pilots land rotaries? there are several ways to do it in RoF, which one is historical?

-shutting the engine off
-throttling back all the way
-decreasing the revs by the mixture control lever
- good 3/4 throttle + heavy blipping

? :roll:

From some of the old clips I've seen it looks to me like they used high revs and constant blipping. It seems to give them some steerage and help avoid ground-loops.
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#16 Cobber55

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:54

A fun video that most people will take for what it is I think. I'm a noob but can see it is not a by the book landing method. Well done.
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#17 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 16:28

Great vid!
On a more serious note: how did real pilots land rotaries? there are several ways to do it in RoF, which one is historical?

-shutting the engine off
-throttling back all the way
-decreasing the revs by the mixture control lever
- good 3/4 throttle + heavy blipping

? :roll:

During the war all scout pilots were taught engine off for landings, I think this is probably blipping where available but it meant you can't go round again so they only would have cut it as late as possible for the last bit of the descent - probably to lessen torque but also to reduce the risk of fire or a flying propellor cutting your head off if you crash. You don't want the engine still sparking with a ruptured fuel tank in a varnished canvas plane!

There were mechanics ready to catch the wings as camels came into land and i also think for the DR1 to stop ground looping.

i think this is why you come to a halt a lot quicker with less bouncing if you land on a proper aerodrome in the game - to simulate this. But maybe not…
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