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"The Death of the Red Baron" - A RoF film (the Voss sequel!)


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#1 Gisbod

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 06:53

Hello all,

Here's the link to my latest film:



It's as accurate as I can possibly make it - But, inevitably, there may be errors! :?

There are a few known inconsistencies - And I've listed them in the desciption on YouTube to save abuse! :lol:

But basically:

1. Mellersh claimed a kill that day, but the Triplane didn't "explode" - It was in fact Wolff, who merely spun towards the ground but then flew safely back home, unscathed ;)

2. The DFW's should be Albatros 2 seaters.

3. There should be RE8's in game!! :D (this could spark another debate on the lack of 2 seaters.. :lol: )

4. Some of the German skins are from other Jastas - basically to give it the look of the "Flying Circus" as opposed to default Jasta 11 skins for all - Equally wrong :geek:

Anything else is my error.. :oops:

Hope you like it! :P
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#2 hq_Reflected

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:02

Magnificient video Gisbod! 8-) Even better than your previous one. Keep them coming!
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#3 WWBrian

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:06

:shock: OMG!!! :shock:

That is SO AWESOME!!

Outstanding!

p.s. can you PM me, what you do to get that awseome "camera shake" using Vegas?
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#4 J2_squid

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:26

Incredible, even better than the last. You truly are the master Gisbod.

S!
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#5 Marco_._

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:31

:shock: OMG!!! :shock:

That is SO AWESOME!!

Outstanding!

p.s. can you PM me, what you do to get that awseome "camera shake" using Vegas?


He did this with mouse moves while recording video IMHO.
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#6 150GCT_Veltro

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:41

Bravo!!!!!!

Mate you deserve a present for this work! This is the best promotional policy we could have for RoF!

Another masterpice!
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#7 hq_Jorri

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 07:56

Plain awesome :D
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#8 JoeCrow

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:12

Blimey!

I'd pay to see that again.

Terrific!
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#9 BH_Vfw_Klaue

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 09:18

S! What a wonderful job , Can't think of a better way to promote ROF then to have a member create epic videos. I S! you again Sir, ;)
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#10 Gisbod

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:07

:shock: OMG!!! :shock:

That is SO AWESOME!!

Outstanding!

p.s. can you PM me, what you do to get that awseome "camera shake" using Vegas?


He did this with mouse moves while recording video IMHO.

Thanks guys..

Yep, nothing special I'm afraid Brian- Just wobbling the mouse around! ;)

There may be way to do it within Sony Vegas - But I'm still new to it - There are probably loads of cool effects which I don't know how to use!

I hope the team can use it promotionally in some way. It's all about getting a bigger group of players which, hopefully, would fund better development and produce a legacy that goes on in the way IL2 has… ;)
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#11 IM.LOFT

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:24

Thank you for your work and talent. This is the highest award for us, for the creation of ROF.
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#12 Der_Sevtl

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:31

Absolutely awesome!

As Reflected said: Keep them coming!
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#13 A.S.Pushkin

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:40

!!!!!
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#14 Gisbod

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:55

Thanks again, but you can't please everyone -

Someone just posted this in my youtube comments:



"- Historically inaccurate

- Visually poorly thought out

It gives the impression of a very low budget movie inspired by Hollywood. There's more to movies than shaking cameras and fancy computer graphics."



I couldn't help noticing he didn't have any films of his own :lol:
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#15 SYN_MrWolf

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 11:03

Bravo bravo..nicely done. Discovery channel worthy :)
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#16 IM.LOFT

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 11:10

Thanks again, but you can't please everyone -

Someone just posted this in my youtube comments:



"- Historically inaccurate

- Visually poorly thought out

It gives the impression of a very low budget movie inspired by Hollywood. There's more to movies than shaking cameras and fancy computer graphics."



I couldn't help noticing he didn't have any films of his own :lol:

My friend. This is probably the hardest thing in the work of any who dare to demonstrate they work around the world. Not long nights spent on the creation, not flour in search of ideas. Namely, this misunderstanding. We have received a massive amount of negative feedback from users, magazines, etc. Sometimes the hands were lowered, and it seemed that we were not able to do. But it is precisely in such moments the artist becomes an artist (the fighter becomes is a fighter). Believe me, those who get pleasure from your work is rarely something to write, but those who are not satisfied with the write always so arranged people.

Do not worry about negative reviews, it means your work does not leave anyone indifferent.
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#17 JoeCrow

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 11:13

Thanks again, but you can't please everyone -

Someone just posted this in my youtube comments:



"- Historically inaccurate

- Visually poorly thought out

It gives the impression of a very low budget movie inspired by Hollywood. There's more to movies than shaking cameras and fancy computer graphics."



I couldn't help noticing he didn't have any films of his own :lol:

My friend. This is probably the hardest thing in the work of any who dare to demonstrate they work around the world. Not long nights spent on the creation, not flour in search of ideas. Namely, this misunderstanding. We have received a massive amount of negative feedback from users, magazines, etc. Sometimes the hands were lowered, and it seemed that we were not able to do. But it is precisely in such moments the artist becomes an artist (the fighter becomes is a fighter). Believe me, those who get pleasure from your work is rarely something to write, but those who are not satisfied with the write always so arranged people.

Do not worry about negative reviews, it means your work does not leave anyone indifferent.

+1

Well said!
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#18 hq_Reflected

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 11:24

Haha, yeah, don't worry! Unconstructive negative comments show how good you really are, just like in the music industry. The more "anti-fans" you have, the more popular you are (or rather the other way around) :lol:
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#19 Vati

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 11:31

Thanks again, but you can't please everyone
Of course and that is a good thing. Just because you get negative feedback, it does not mean it is not worth considering. If you want to improve, you should take notes from both sides of the fence. ;)

Personally, I think it is cool that you find fun in ROF beside flying even though I do not find these movies anything more than just that - someone enjoying weekend movie making. There is for me no history part in the story telling. I take them more like some random air action snippets.
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#20 Gisbod

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 11:32

Thanks for that.. ;)

Loft - I do sympathise with you.. It's just a little hobby for me, but it must be pretty hurtful for you guys.. The amount of work that must go into a Sim like this is unimaginable.. And as you say, everyone wants to be negative about it! Probably doesn't help with us lot on the forum, being disgruntled because they don't like this and that - must drive you mad!

I think you'll find the silent majority here really do appreciate your efforts ;)

This game is stunning - If it's any consolation - I paid about £1500 just so I could play it properly…
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#21 Gisbod

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 12:12

There is for me no history part in the story telling. I take them more like some random air action snippets.

For me it's the opposite - the story is everything.. I think you can watch a clip of the most amazing in game footage, but it just doesn't draw me in unless there's an historical story to it..

But we're all different and that's not a bad thing! There's a big difference though to constructive criticisms and just slagging something off.. Someone on the SimHQ website has left some really useful points as feedback.. Always grateful for that ;)
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#22 150GCT_Veltro

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 12:34

Same here. Historicall background is the plus quam for me in these movies. WW1 feeling is what we need, and what Gisbod has been able to capture.

De gustibus non est disputandum, but i like these movies really a lot.
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#23 Gisbod

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 17:53

Well that's two of us.. ;)

Though you may have to translate some of your post for me! :lol:
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#24 Huetz

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 18:04

Very nice movie. Too bad there are no single infantry modles with the Enfield rifle in game, you could have also moddled Snowy Evans who was recently given credit for the kill on MvR as he was the only shooter that could have fired a round at an angle that would actually match the wounds Richthofen had received. A very lucky shot indeed.

Great work!
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#25 XTRMNTR2K

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 20:21

As I already posted on youtube, this video is outstanding. I'm loving this as well as your Voss video and I'd be more than happy to watch more of your fine work. :)
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#26 ATAG_Bliss

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 20:34

Bloody Brilliant!

Thanks so much for making such wonderful movies. Please keep making more :)
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#27 Gisbod

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 23:18

Thanks!

I didn't know about Snowy Evans.. :geek:

I'll have to look him up ;) Apparently May was absolutely convinced that Brown shot him down..
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#28 Miggins

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 23:40

I had so much fun making my entry to the video competition I intended to have a go at getting footage to tell a historical tale myself (MvR vs LH), but it quickly became apparent to me that this kind of video takes a lot more than raw footage.

Not only is there quite a bit of research involved, but you have to fly your "stars" planes too, especially if you want it to look they way you envisage it and make trhe story "work".

Really well done with the two you have completed so far, I think it will be a good while before I dip my toe into the historic recreation video genre.
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#29 catchov

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 01:14

For me it's the opposite - the story is everything.. I think you can watch a clip of the most amazing in game footage, but it just doesn't draw me in unless there's an historical story to it..

But we're all different and that's not a bad thing! There's a big difference though to constructive criticisms and just slagging something off..

Superb video Gisbod :) I know how much time and effort goes into making a movie with a set storyline ! It can be very frustrating getting it as close as possible to the storyboard laid out with all the "retakes" needed just to get it right.

As for "the story is everything" I totally agree. But it doesn't have to be promoted as "historical" because then you can get the pedants criticising over some small detail … or else they're jealous or trolling.

There are a million stories of airmen in WW1. You can make them up and base them loosely on history (to avoid the naysayers) whilst getting the general theme or message across to the viewers and promoting the beauty of RoF at the same time.

In any case, (in regard to your Voss movie) the stupid "history" channel version I saw with the silly flat turn myth of Voss's DR1 was way over the top yet naive people believe this to be the truth ! Your effort was far superior so if there was any justice the history channel would be caned for spreading absolute bollocks. It's kind of weird to me, but the US seems to have a strange obsession with the DR1 unlike any other country (Germany excluded of course) where it could apparently do no wrong and could fly like a UFO. The legend apparently surpasses reality and continues to grow in that country :? It was funny to read (I think from Jason) that if ICE didn't have a DR1 on the cover no-one in the US would know it was about WW1 :lol: But enough of that.

Bottom line is I agree with you that any video worth its salt must have a storyline (but not necessarily 100% historical) to keep the viewers interest.

I look forward to your future work and keep at it mate :D
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#30 veltjens

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 02:09

This is sensational! :-)

I used to love watching that old, opening sequence in "Red Baron."

You've done another wonderful job!

THANK YOU!
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#31 BH_Vfw_Klaue

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 02:26

It's kind of weird to me, but the US seems to have a strange obsession with the DR1 unlike any other country (Germany excluded of course) where it could apparently do no wrong and could fly like a UFO. The legend apparently surpasses reality and continues to grow in that country :? :D

S! and where is the site that has this info? Do you live stateside? ;)
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#32 Firecage

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 02:29

It's kind of weird to me, but the US seems to have a strange obsession with the DR1 unlike any other country (Germany excluded of course) where it could apparently do no wrong and could fly like a UFO. The legend apparently surpasses reality and continues to grow in that country :? :D

S! and where is the site that has this info? Do you live stateside? ;)

He probably read it on the internet… you know its all the truth if you read it on the internet…. :D
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#33 rabu

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:08

Gisbod: A huge Bravo!.. really an excellent film you've put together. Hope to see more and I'm sure we well. Thanks for sharing with everyone.
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#34 Riemann73

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 07:44

Amazing video Sir. You're doing some masterpiece.

!S
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#35 ST_ami7b5

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 08:03

Excellent work :!:
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#36 Gisbod

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 14:37

Chap called Jim Miller posted this on the SimHQ forum and I thought I'd paste it in here as its seems very well informed and some interesting stuff said (wish I'd spoken to him first! :lol: ) Although my main source of info "Under the Guns of the Red Baron" - contradicts it somewhat - believing Brown to have fired the bullet (from combat reports of the pilots..)

Anyway, I know it's long, but well worth reading ;)





Good movie, Gisbod. I’m intrigued these kinds of things can be assembled via flight sims. However, since this movie was made ostensibly to portray a historical event, respectfully I agree that there are a few historical inaccuracies. I'm going to list them for history's sake and with constructive intent, not to flame you or your work.

1. Brown's attack was at least a 45-degree diving attack, not level, from ca. Richthofen's 8 o'clock high; i.e., a classic "boom and zoom" from left to right. The bullet path through Richthofen was upward, right to left.

2. Brown's single attack came west of Vaux-sur-Somme, before Richthofen turned to reverse course, a turn which isn't in the film. Brown dived, attacked, broke away, didn't return. Richthofen kept chasing May. In the film it appears Brown’s attack and Popkin’s gunfire occurred simultaneously; they did not.

3. Richthofen did not fall vertically, as mentioned in Brown's combat report. Beaucoup ground witnesses reported that after reversing course back toward the east Richthofen's plane reared, levelled off, entered a slip, assumed a landing attitude (some on the ground thought he was coming to strafe), hit the ground in a hard landing that caused a nose-high bounce and stall before slamming down again and rotating in the sliding stop to face west. No Camel around when this happened.

4. No mention of Richthofen's gun jams and broken firing pin, which are what really saved May.

5. Richthofen's pursuit of May was nothing unusual. Many times before he had tenaciously clung to a fleeing enemy, even with gun jams that he eventually cleared (Hawker), and had flown behind enemy lines many times.

Contrary to what is often retold, Richthofen didn't break any of his "rules" that day. This oft-mentioned rule comes from his combat operations manual, which says: "One should never obstinately stay with an opponent who, through bad shooting or skillful turning, one has been unable to shoot down, when the battle lasts until it is far on the other side and one is alone and faced by a greater number of opponents."

Usually, the word “far” is omitted when this is quoted. Yet Richthofen was not far over the lines when shot down, just about 2.5 miles, which in an airplane is nothing. His altitude was much more significant than this distance. Put him at 18,000 feet two or three miles behind the lines and the rifle or machine gun fire that killed him couldn’t reach him. At treetop altitude, however, he was well within range. At that height, distance behind the lines is irrelevant—put him over the lines at treetop altitude, or even just inside the German lines, and it could be just as deadly (case in point, Mannock’s death).

Referring to the "broken rule," Richthofen was not “faced by a greater number of opponents.” He was chasing May—no threat there—and the only other plane that approached was Brown. One plane is not a greater number of opponents, and Brown flew away after his attack while Richthofen continued after May. Who can say absolutely that Richthofen even saw Brown’s boom and zoom?

6. Too much of Richthofen’s death is associated with his 6 July wounding. There is ample, ample evidence that he was not suffering from PTSD in April 1918. Normally the “rule violation” is listed as the main “proof” of PTSD—but there was no rule violation. Richthofen’s “Thoughts in a Dugout” is also used as “proof” but nothing in that undated document relates to the state of warfare in April 1918—-although it very much relates to that which existed in August 1917, when Richthofen was still suffering mightily from his fresh wounding (he was still having bone splinters removed). Rather than “going to his four walls” after a sortie in March/April 1918, there are many reports of Richthofen’s accessibility, his joviality, his productivity, (for instance, this is when he wrote his combat manual), and his success in this period is unquestionable.

By March 1918 Richthofen had recuperated after months of leave. He was gone nearly all of September 1917 (and in early September there is famous footage of him meeting Algernon Bird and examining his downed Pup, all the while appearing well, smiling, engaging, and certainly not “within his four walls”), all of October 1917, half of December 1918, all of January 1918. Flying was limited in February and early March because of poor weather. Once he began scoring again 12 March he shot down 17 airplanes in six weeks (with many days of this period inactive due to poor weather); success he hadn’t known for a year. Of these airplanes, two were AWFK8s, two were RE8s, one was a Biff, one was a Dolphin, two were SE5as, and nine were Camels, including the final five. Clearly, this man was back on top of his game.

7. The movie depicts Richthofen landing immediately after Brown's attack, although Richthofen continued his pursuit of May after Brown attacked and then departed. Even those who believe Brown's bullet hit Richthofen and he flew on wounded anyway acknowledge this.

8. Factors that led to Richthofen’s downing are “any given Sunday;” target fixation (which he’d had before being wounded 6 July, such as when he was shot down March 1917, and thus this didn’t just suddenly crop up from “PTSD” resulting from a wound incurred over nine months previously); gun jams and a broken firing pin (which allowed only a few rounds being fired at a time between manual re-cocking); and perhaps disorientation caused by increased groundspeed via the easterly winds. Although, maybe Richthofen knew exactly where he was and rolled the dice that the lingering valley mist would protect him from ground fire? We’ll never know.

Again, please understand the above is meant to be constructive and is not a personal negative attack upon Gisbod or his film in any manner. Despite my comments I think the film is well constructed–I couldn't make a one as good that included the above details.

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#37 hq_Jorri

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 22:21

Those are nice comments and it's good to see such an extensive account from someone who is obviously well studied on the subject.

I have to disagree however that he did not break any rule, as Miller mentions himself that Righthofen was flying at treetop level and that this is what proposed the danger…surely Richthofen must have known this was a great risk and broken a rule of himself not to take this risk?
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#38 VonFear

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 23:31

Excellent, would love to see one done of Immelmann
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#39 Huetz

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 00:50

That leaves us as at the problem of not having synchronizer gear failures…
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#40 hq_Jorri

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 00:55

Hardly, you don't need something in game to try and show it in a video. KEeping away from RoF discussions, if Gisbod had known about that gunjam I'm sure he would have found a suitable way to put it in the video even without it being modeled in RoF. ;)
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