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#1 =FB=VikS

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 09:54

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Any information on Felixstowe F.2A needed (exept Windsock Datafile 82) needed.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

We are searching for anything on
Hansa-Brandenburg W.12 (exept Windsock Datafile 61 - as we already have it).
Especially interested in cockpit layout - as WS had not much on it.
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#2 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 10:18

Sounds exciting- I will see if I have any info this evening.
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#3 MBAVRO

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 11:14

The Gothas were originally based at Ghistelles in Belgium near the coast whilst awaiting completion of airfields near Ghent.

From April 1917 in preparation for raids against Britain they were moved to the new airfields.

Staffeln 13 and 14 were assigned to Saint Denijs-Westrem, seven kms south-west of Ghent.

Staffeln 15 and 16 were assigned to Gontrode to the east of Ghent. This airfield had a Zeppelin shed.

Staffeln 17 and 18 were assigned Mariakerke to the north-west of Ghent.

Ghistelles remained as a divertionary airfield in case of emergencies.


Reference: First Blitz by Neil Hanson.
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#4 SYN_Vander

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:12

I have read about a Sopwith Pup pilot (Lloyd Samuel Breadner) that shot down a Gotha (A II or IV?, not a V, but they look quite similar) in April 1917. He spotted it from his airfield at Marieux (SW of Arras), so the Gothas must also have been stationed more to the south??
Anyway, it will make for a nice mission!

See here: Over the Front

"While the mess was still humming with the news of Malone's morning exploits, a lone Gotha GIV passed over Marieux aerodrome at 10,000 feet. Breadner, who was on his way to the aerodrome at the time, saw and heard the British AA pumping away at it. He arrived to find that his Pup ("Happy") was the only machine, on the field, and ready, so he initiated immediate chase. He caught up with his quarry a few miles south of Marieux, secured a comfortable position behind the tail where he couldn't be shot at, and proceeded systematically to direct his stream of bullets into both engines forcing the bomber to crash-land. It turned tail up in a field southeast of Vron, behind the allied lines. Breadner landed nearby and had the pleasure of seeing the three occupants, all members of Kampfstaffel 15, taken prisoner. Unfortunately he had not arrived in time to prevent the Germans from setting fire to the machine which exploded the bombs, practically destroying his trophy."
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#5 =FB=VikS

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:23

Most interest begins from spring 1918, as we have no England, but from spring of 1918 Gothas started to make raids on Allies communications on western front, and yet we have no info about these operations and airfield locations.
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#6 J.j.

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 12:32

Most interest begins from spring 1918, as we have no England, but from spring of 1918 Gothas started to make raids on Allies communications on western front, and yet we have no info about these operations and airfield locations.

If I undersantd correctly, you plan to release the G. V variant of the Gotha.
Unfortunately, almost all the G. V planes were used by the Kaghol 3 (then renamed Bogohl 3).

As MBAVRO said, this unit was based only on the following airfields:
St. Denis Westrem
Gontrode
Mariakerke
Ghistelles
Nieu(w)munster
Oostacher

All these places are located in the Belgian Flanders, near the coast…
And all these locations are not represented on ROF map…

So, I'm curious how you will sort this out…

EDIT, PS: does my signature get deleted?
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#7 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 10 August 2010 - 14:50

I have numerous sources about big (several squadron) RAF/IAF bomber and scout raids on Gotha airfields at home. I'll see if I can dig out where and when the raids took place to help you pin point where and when the Gotha squadrons were there - may not have the actual squadron that was based there but should pinpoint the fields used.

Edit: looks like the post above got there first! :)
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#8 WWBrian

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Posted 16 August 2010 - 03:15

Seems like you already have all the info on Gotha bases, but I'll throw this website link into the mix in chance that other detailed information can be gleened.

http://www.warandgam...er-england.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.warandgam...fo/2008/02/goth … gland.html
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#9 =FB=VikS

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 13:27

A new request:

we are looking for any photo/pitcures information on Gotha G.V cockpit gauges (and yes - we already had Windsock Datafile Special - but photos there are not a good guality).

Please help if you have any other photos!
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#10 Laser

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 15:41

For people who happen to know: how different are the cockpit gauges in Gotha G.V from the gauges from earlier Gothas? I.e. what are the main differences between Gotha versions? Maybe someone does have gauges images from earlier versions, but won't know if they are useful.
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#11 Laser

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 15:46

I suppose you must have that already :)

Image

(source: http://www.airwar.ru...w1/gothag5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.airwar.ru...w1/gothag5.html )

Also installing this in FS2004 could help:

Image

Link: here
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#12 Sensenmann

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 16:07

http://www.memaerobilia.com/instrumentselection.asp

There is a Gotha specific magneto switch in that collection, as well as a "generic" bomber altimeter.

I tried to post the images directly, but the site doesn't allow it, so it will require some hunting to find the items… sorry :oops:


Hope that proves useful.
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#13 hq_Reflected

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:53

Dunno about the Gotha, but this site is full of WWI instruments!

http://www.jasta11.co.uk/page31.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.jasta11.co.uk/page31.htm
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#14 WF2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:54

I would highly suggest you contact Dan San Abbott, he is a highly respected WW1 aviation historian and can direct you to the research information you are looking for.

Hope this helps.
Cheers, WF2
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#15 WF2

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 15:38

From: Regulus, Aerodrome forum

Hope this helps.

BAO/Kagohl/Bogohl I

AIRFIELD LOCATIONS :

11/1914 - 01/1915: Ghistelles
01/1915 - 02/1915: Metz
02/1915 - 03/1915: Ghistelles
07.03.1915 Allenstein (Ostpreußen) Flugplatz Deuthen
10.03.1615 Deuthen all complete
22.04.1915 leaving Allenstein
26.04.1915 arriving at Czyzyny
10.05.1915 leaving Czyzyny
11.05.1915 Tarnow
14.05.1915 leaving Tarnow and arrival at Rzeszow
12.06.1915 leaving Rzesnow and arrival at Monina near Jaroslaw
20.06.1915 leaving Monina
21.06.1915 arrival at Wroblaczyn
27.06.1915 leaving Wroblaczyn, going to Berlin
(23.04.1915 Krakau (Galizien-Offensive))
01.07.1915 Berlin leaving for Ghistelles
Macedonia 1916
Gistel May 1917
Maria Aalter with Bosta 1 – 3 on 18/12/1917
Gistel with other Bosta’s ?
Etreux January 1918
Tupigny 1918
Foreste 26/04/1918
Estreux May 1918
Malmy 24/07/1918

Or this version according to one of the members of the unit :
May 1917 Saultain
May 1917 Marly
18 June 1917 : Asq-Lille
7 July 1917 Gistel
13 July 1917 Asq
23 August 1917 Brugge-Koolkerke
6 September 1917 Gent
20 September 1917 Maria Aalter
24 January 1918 Etreux
6 July 1918 Malmy
Between 30 July and 14 August to Etreux
11 October 1918 Anor
2 November 1918 Namur
12 November 1918 back to Germany

Kagohl IV

May 1916 : Le Chatelet
5 July 1916 : Mercy le Bas
1916 : Essigny le Grand
September—October 1916 : Kasta 20 at Razgrad, Bulgaria
End of October 1916—November 1916 : Kasta 20 at Hudowa, Macedonia
4 August 1917 : Kruishoutem aerodrome
20 April 1918 : Guyencourt
June 1918 : Danizy
August 1918 : Mont d’Aurigny

31st May 1917 Kasta 23 - 4th Army joined Kagohl 4 again as an official part on the 24th August 1917 at Kruishoutem.

Kagohl/Bogohl V

AIRFIELD LOCATIONS :

Marquain 25.11.1917 BG 5 6. Armee
Marquain 25.01.1918 BG 5 6. Armee
Taintignies 26.05.1918 BG 5 6. Armee
Helesmes 01.03.1918 BG 5 17. Armee
Tournai 01.03.1918 BG 5 17. Armee
Wavrechain sous Denain 01.03.1918 BG 5 17. Armee
Mons 22.10.1918 BG 5 17. Armee

Mouchin 18.02.1918 BG 5 BS 4 6. Armee
Mouchin 26.05.1918 BG 5 BS 4 6. Armee
Seraincourt pres Rethel 06.07.1918 BG 5 BS 4 1. Armee

Marquain 18.02.1918 BG 5 BS 5 6. Armee
St. Maur 15.05.1918 BG 5 BS 5 6. Armee
St. Maur 26.05.1918 BG 5 BS 5 6. Armee
Seraincourt pres Rethel 06.07.1918 BG 5 BS 5 1. Armee

Mouchin 18.02.1918 BG 5 BS 6 6. Armee
Mouchin 26.05.1918 BG 5 BS 6 6. Armee
Seraincourt pres Rethel 06.07.1918 BG 5 BS 6 1. Armee


Peter Grosz said that of 21 March 1918, Bogohl 5's staff were at Mouchin and Bosta 4, 5 and 6 were at Marquion.

Sorry didn't check on the planes they flew…

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#16 WF2

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 11:32

James A. Pratt III: There is a picture of a Gotha G-IV (?) cockpit in Peter Grosz's book "Gotha! and the old profile on the Gotha GI -V.

The Aerodrome Forum

I will look through my Profile books too. WF2
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#17 Catfish

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 12:26

I guess you already have that ..

Image
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#18 Catfish

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 12:35

Hi,

Gotha bombsight (not sure which G.? type):

Image


Interior gun tunnel, and gangway:

Image


Oxygen generator used in Gotha bombers (and Fokker D.VII):

Image


Once more ox.-gen.:

Image


Sorry, i do not find much about the G.'s interior.

Greetings,
Catfish
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#19 WF2

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 14:10

Here is one: Gotha G.V
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#20 Doconicus

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Posted 08 October 2010 - 17:22

I am not sure what the feature difference between the Gotha IV and V were, but it seems silly to recreate the Gotha V when there we so few made. The Gotha IV a few hundred were manufactured while only 36 of the Gotha V were made.

Designation: Gotha G.V
Classification Type: Heavy Bomber
Contractor: Gothaer Waggonfabrik AG - Germany
Country of Origin: Imperial Germany
Production Total: 36


Designation: Gotha G.IV
Classification Type: Bomber
Contractor: Gothaer Waggonfabrik AG / LVG / Siemens-Schuckert - Germany
Country of Origin: Imperial Germany
Production Total: 230

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=827


There were so many fantastic planes made during the great war, especially bombers. I hope that more make their appearance in RoF.

Also, I think it's prudent to ask if more early war planes, scouts, fighters, bombers etc were created. 1915-16.

Docster
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#21 PikAs53

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 21:10

Ok here are some files only one real Gotha but I am just starting to search my books. I will send as soon as I find something in these. Just saw your request, so it may take some time. Sorry for that.

Attached Files


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#22 Karma-Police

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 21:35

If I undersantd correctly, you plan to release the G. V variant of the Gotha.
Unfortunately, almost all the G. V planes were used by the Kaghol 3 (then renamed Bogohl 3).

As MBAVRO said, this unit was based only on the following airfields:
St. Denis Westrem
Gontrode
Mariakerke
Ghistelles
Nieu(w)munster
Oostacher

All these places are located in the Belgian Flanders, near the coast…
And all these locations are not represented on ROF map…

So, I'm curious how you will sort this out…

Hum…
A solution would be to do another bomber that is more suited for the current map.
I know the AEG G.IV were used for short range mission. It was a tactical bomber not a strategical one. They were not used to fly over England so…

You'll finish the Gotha when the channel map will be avaliable.
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#23 sturmkraehe

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Posted 15 October 2010 - 22:56

foudn this one

http://commons.wikim...ockpit_G_IV.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: … t_G_IV.jpg
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#24 J.j.

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 08:40

Of course, a Gotha G IV would have been a far better choice, given the current map.
But unfortunately it seems the building of the plane was decided before searching informations about it.
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#25 Karma-Police

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 09:56

Of course, a Gotha G IV would have been a far better choice, given the current map.
But unfortunately it seems the building of the plane was decided before searching informations about it.
:D 8-) :D

The Gotha G.V is a very famous German bomber. It's a star (like Lady Gaga) when you compare it to Friedrichshafen G.III/G.IIIa and AEG G.IV.
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#26 J.j.

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 10:36

It appears that, quite frequently, quality is better than celebrity.
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#27 Doconicus

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Posted 18 October 2010 - 17:13

I have found (after further review) that the only, yet significant difference between the Gotha IV and V is that the fuel tanks were in nacelles in the wings above the engines. This was deemed a mistake and the tanks were combined to a single large tank in the center of the fuselage between the tail gunner/observer and the pilot.

I think it would be harrowing to see one of these beasts with the fuel tanks on fire over the engines going down.

I hope that this helps.
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#28 Karma-Police

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 14:17

Viks, have you look at some magazines ?
Windsock International, Cross & Cokcade, Over the Front.

I'm sure you'll find some article about Gotha G.V.

Some historians will be happy to help you.
I know that Peter Grosz had an extensive photo archive. He is dead know but photos still exist.
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#29 Acasto

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 18:03

Try on Aircraft Number 172 squadron/signal pubblications - "German Bombers of WWI in action" ;)

Image

Image

Image
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#30 Mogster

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 20:06

Its strange that the Gotha V is so famous when hardly any were built. I suppose its like the WW2 Westland Whirlwind…

Was there a huge difference between the GIV and GV or did they have basically the same airframe? The HPO 400 seems to have been the HPO 100 with more powerful engines.
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#31 Acasto

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Posted 29 October 2010 - 15:45

Its strange that the Gotha V is so famous when hardly any were built. I suppose its like the WW2 Westland Whirlwind…

Was there a huge difference between the GIV and GV or did they have basically the same airframe? The HPO 400 seems to have been the HPO 100 with more powerful engines.

The Gotha C.IV and later G.V are the most important of the Gotha series bombers. Both aircraft were similar in layout and design with the G.V being marginally larger, heavier and faster than the G.IV.
G.IV and G.V fuselages were built as single all wood units with wire bracing and covered entirely with sheet plywood. The G.IV had a fuselage length of 12.2m, while the G.V was slightly longer at 12.4m.
Both aircaft featured a nose compartment equipped with the bombing controls and a single 7.22MM Parabellum machine gun. The pilot's cockpit was located just beneath the upper wing leading edge. The pilot sat on the left side of the cockpit. A short passageway along the right fuselage side led to the nose compartment. The G.IV's fuel tank were fitted beneath the wing-mounted engines; those of the G.V were placed immediately aft of cockpit. The tanks completely filled the G.V'2 fuselage, blocking acces to aft gunner's compartment ;)
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#32 Otis_Campbell

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 22:06

This is sort of a roundabout way to try and help - in the early 70s in the US the publisher Marshall Cavendish (http://www.marshallc...sh-us/index.xml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.marshallc...dish.us/marshal … /index.xml) republished a mid 60s British magazine series called Purcell's History of WWII. As part of that they also published a number of "specials", two of them which I have are The First War Planes and Bombers 1914-1939. I didn't find a cockpit view of the Gotha but there was a nice (John Batchelor) drawing of a Gotha GV with these specs:

Gross weight:8,745 pounds Span:77 ft 9 in Length:40 ft 7 in Engine: 2x 260hp Mercedes D IVs
Armament: 3-4 machine guns Crew: 3 Speed: 87 mph at ground level Ceiling 21,320 ft Range: 520 miles
Bomb load: 1,300 lbs.

You probably knew all that. But maybe by contacting the publisher they could put you on the trail to some additional contacts and archives that would have the information of the Gothas and other planes from this era.
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#33 Swampey35

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Posted 18 November 2010 - 17:20

This Any more info that you dont already have

Attached Files

  • Attached File  0001.jpg   705.6KB   1881 downloads
  • Attached File  0001.jpg   705.6KB   1881 downloads
  • Attached File  0003.jpg   559.97KB   1881 downloads

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#34 redcoat22

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 14:07

This may be worthless… But here is some pictures. (This shows two seats in the HP)

http://www.ww2aircra...g-iv-18057.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.ww2aircra...et/forum/world- … 18057.html
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#35 Brandiment

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Posted 24 December 2010 - 05:06

The gotha is nice and all but i have a question. When is it comming out. Yea it great but i think instead of looking at pics we should use it.
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#36 =FB=VikS

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 23:13

We are searching for any detailed information about french Renault 12 fcx/fcy engine (installed on Bregiet A2/B2).
Thank you!
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#37 WillivonLuft

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  • Posts: 7

Posted 05 February 2011 - 03:21

Hello,
Here is something:

Engines used in Breguet 14
Fiat A-12bis Renault 12Fcx/12Fe
Cylinders 6 inline 12 V-type
Cooling water water
Rated continuous power
(Military power?) 300 (320) 275 / 300
(300)/(316) hp
Rated engine speed 1700 1550 r/min
Propeller diameter 2850 2950 mm
Specific fuel consumption 222 NA g/hph
Specific oil consumption 12,2 NA
Compression ratio 4,31 4,25 / 5
Dry weight 418 385 / 365 kg
Weight in running order 504 ¹ NA kg Displacement 21,7 22,1 l
Bore 160 125 mm
Stroke 180 150 mm
Height 1130 NA mm
Width 560 NA mm
Length 1780 NA mm
Volume (H x W x L) 1126 NA l
¹ less fuel, oil and tanks


Breguet 14 A2
Engine Fiat A-12bis [42] Renault 12Fcx [6]
Empty weight 1 141 kg 1 030 kg
Military load 150 kg 150 kg
Crew 160 kg 160 kg
Fuel and oil 253 kg 216 kg
Gross weight 1 704 kg 1 565 kg
Max. speed
sea level 185 km/h * 179 km/h*
2 000 m 179 km/h 175 km/h
3 000 m 176 km/h 172 km/h
4 000 m 169 km/h ——
5 000 m 156 km/h 161 km/h

Climb time
500 m 2 min 15 s
1 000 m 4 min 40 s
2 000 m 10 min 20 s 6 min 50 s
3 000 m 18 min 30 s 11 min 35 s
4 000 m 29 min 00 s
5 000 m 29 min 30 s

Stall speed 82 km/h * 79 km/h *
Ceiling 6 100 m 6 100 m
Fuel capacity 370 liters 271 liters [18]
Oil capacity 26 liters 18 liters [18]
Fuel consumption 100 l/h
Endurance 3,5 h* 2,75 h *
* estimated
Source:
http://www.oocities....4/Breguet14.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.oocities....seppo_koivisto/ … guet14.htm

I also suggest the following book: Windsock Datafile Special Breguet 14 by Alan D. Toe, has some nice pictures and drawings of engine area and photograph of engine.

I will keep looking for you.

Willi von Luft
Jasta 99
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#38 volatile_void

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  • Posts: 55

Posted 05 February 2011 - 17:15

http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/renault.pdf lists the following Renault engines as being used in the Breguet 14:

Engine / Type / Dimensions / Weight / Use
12 Fc 280 ch / V12 à 50° / 125 x 150 / 260 kg / Breguet 14 A2
12 Fe 300 ch / V12 à 50° / 125 x 150 / 350 kg / Breguet 14 B2

Source: Les moteurs d'avation renault, Gerard Hartmann, page 16 (www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/renault.pdf)

edit: Additional data on Renault 12 Fe (not sure if you need data on the Fe variant):

This engine state a twelve-cylinder V liquid-cooled 50 ° of a cylinder of 22.10 liters, it could develop 305 hp at 1550 rpm in normal and 312 hp at 1600 rpm at maximum speed. Both magnetos were grouped at the back and the sump was equipped with cooling fins to allow the oil to withstand the high temperatures due to high rpm.

Source: jn.passieux.free.fr/html/Renault_12Fe.php

edit2: a table in "Flight" magazine of 1919 lists some Breguet 14 variants equipped with a Renault 12 Fcx/Fcy. This table is interesting because it also lists speed/rpm on different levels (amongst other data, refer to source for additional data like climb rates etc.):

Breguet 14.A2 (560 sq.ft.), with ailerons:
Renault 12 Fcx, 300hp@1600rpm
109.5mph/1580rpm@ 6500ft
107.0mph/1560rpm@ 9800ft
104.5mph/1540rpm@13100ft
100.0mph/1510rpm@16400ft

Breguet 14.A2 (528 sq.ft.):
Renault 12 Fcy, 310hp@1600rpm
114.0mph/1600rpm@ 6500ft
108.0mph/1550rpm@ 9800ft
104.5mph/1520rpm@13100ft
102.5mph/1500rpm@16400ft

Breguet 14.B2:
Renault 12 Fcx, 300hp@1600rpm
110.0mph/1560rpm@ 6500ft
106.5mph/1530rpm@ 9800ft
103.0mph/1500rpm@13100ft

Source: Flight, February 13, 1919 (www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1919/1919%20-%200204.html)

edit3: Photos of Renault 12 Fe:
memorial.flight.free.fr/voisindetail2uk.html (Note that the nameplate of the second engine states it as type 12E, so it might actually be a Renault 12E instead of a 12Fe)
memorial.flight.free.fr/voisindetail3uk.html (Renault 12 Fe installed in a Voisin 10)
www.wwi-models.org/app/sbj/srch/Macn.php?action=uArchList&subjId=288 (Links "Bourget R.12", "Krakow 12FE" and "Uruguay 300HP")

edit4: I have attached the chapter about the liquid cooled Renault V8 and V12 aero-engines from "Textbook of aero engines" (1920).

Attached File  235.jpg   239.12KB   1433 downloads
Attached File  236.jpg   222.2KB   1433 downloads
Attached File  237.jpg   205.17KB   1433 downloads
Attached File  238.jpg   241.98KB   1433 downloads
Attached File  239.jpg   556.16KB   1433 downloads
Attached File  240.jpg   341.65KB   1433 downloads
Attached File  241.jpg   268.54KB   1433 downloads
Attached File  242.jpg   386.87KB   1433 downloads

Source: Textbook of aero engines, Sherbondy et al., 1920, pages 235-242 (www.archive.org/details/textbookaeroeng00wardgoog)
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#39 Sluf

Sluf
  • Posts: 1

Posted 07 February 2011 - 23:21

Im not so sure about this game anymore , I still love the flights , and the battles , however I see plains that are flying in 1916 career missions that were not built untill late 1917 . it seems as the missions always put you against newer plains , I don't get the cost as well . Ive purchased every plain available , havent bouhgt the iron cross update yet , why should you have to? I hope they can patch the issues with plains , and the propper times they flew . Other wise I love the game , just mildly dissapointed .
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#40 ImPeRaToR

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  • Posts: 7902

Posted 07 February 2011 - 23:26

Im not so sure about this game anymore , I still love the flights , and the battles , however I see plains that are flying in 1916 career missions that were not built untill late 1917 . it seems as the missions always put you against newer plains , I don't get the cost as well . Ive purchased every plain available , havent bouhgt the iron cross update yet , why should you have to? I hope they can patch the issues with plains , and the propper times they flew . Other wise I love the game , just mildly dissapointed .

Have a look at this: New Career Mode Pics Here!

A new career mode is being worked on, with historical match ups and all sorts of other nice features that you can guess from the pictures. It is currently the primary focus of the development team but building such a dynamic career mode is not something that can be done quickly so please be patient.
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