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The Death of Werner Voss.. A video documentary


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#41 WF2

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 11:44

Better then the History Channel or any other documentaries I have seen on Voss. I think this should be awards something for displaying what RoF is really about.

Bravo!
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#42 Masaq

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 16:17

Hey Gis, really enjoyed it - nice to see people using RoF as a canvas for other talents. I hope you don't mind but in the YT comments for the video I left a bit of feedback that I thought might have further improved the video. Really not meant in a picky/unhelpful way, just things that would have made it (I think) even more professional looking than it already does :)
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#43 Gisbod

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 00:16

Well, have taken the plunge and deleted the video and uploaded again with some corrections - the typo errors were bugging me too much - a few tweaks here and there - Shame to lose all the views and comments, but I'd rather it be right - If you spot any other errors - please don't bother telling me! :lol:

Not really, feedback always welcome.. Re. the pictures being too central - I agree - I tried to put them to the side in the first place but couldn't work out how! It's Sony Vegas, and I've only just bought it - so a lot of the video is trial and error :oops:

The next one will be better!

Here's the new link..

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mKspJtIMPH0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">
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#44 BroadSide

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 02:58

Gisbod, in your sig it states you want to get rid of shimmering.
Have you disabled post effects in your startup.cfg?
That fixed mine. It's 98% smooth now
HTH
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#45 TX-Gunslinger

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 04:01

Great Film Gisbod - AWESOME! Best ROF video yet…

More, more!

S!

Gunny
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#46 Gisbod

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 08:24

Gisbod, in your sig it states you want to get rid of shimmering.
Have you disabled post effects in your startup.cfg?
That fixed mine. It's 98% smooth now
HTH

Thanks Readyman, but tried that already, along with a thousand other attempts. The bottom line is I've been corresponding with Han on the shimmering and they know it was something they changed in 1.012 - but they don't know what! :?

It's actually very limiting for making a movie, because everything has to be at high altitude, or very close up at low level or the shimmering looks hideous - You can't really see it in the film - but that took quite a lot of effort on my part to mask during the edit stage! It's a real restriction :(

Oh well, one day. I've kinda given up on it now… :roll:
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#47 catchov

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:11

I've only just now had a chance to watch this. What a fantastic vid that is Sir Gisbod ! That's how I like 'em with a good storyline well told :) And the music was magnificently suitable and well edited :D A great showcase for RoF :P

Was it true Voss was pissed as a fart that fateful day possibly accounting for his apparently cavalier, if not downright cocky, attitude ?
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#48 Viper69

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 13:19

I wonder, not anything about your movie but the story of that engagement. All the stories say he could have climbed and escaped. Werent they already at altitude which would not leave much more room to climb and escape. Second, he was fighting SE5s which caould out run him and even if he could outclimb them his speed would have been so poor at that altitude he would have been a dead man. I think staying and fighting was all he could do and he knew it.
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#49 J2_squid

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 14:59

I think staying and fighting was all he could do and he knew it.

I agree with you. From what I have read, Voss didnt have an opportunity to extend away. Also Voss was pretty burnt out by then. You can see in the last photograph taken of him with his brothers (shortly before his fateful flight) he looks exhausted.

Attached File  210ilah.jpg   80.54KB   699 downloads

Voss was also due for leave that day. With his score standing at 48 it must of been tempting for him to raise it to 50. Perhaps fatigue clouded his judgement or it was just pure bravado?

In anycase its a dogfight that passed into legend.
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#50 rabu

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 15:38

The slight desaturation of the landscape colors used in this video is a huge improvement to the looks of the terrain. I hope the devs take note of this and realize how much it helps and I don't think it would be that difficult for them to make the change. I mentioned this shortly after ROF first came out and here is proof of the improvement.

I watched the video again and I'm really impressed with it, very professional looking.
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#51 Viper69

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 16:41

I think staying and fighting was all he could do and he knew it.

I agree with you. From what I have read, Voss didnt have an opportunity to extend away. Also Voss was pretty burnt out by then. You can see in the last photograph taken of him with his brothers (shortly before his fateful flight) he looks exhausted.



Voss was also due for leave that day. With his score standing at 48 it must of been tempting for him to raise it to 50. Perhaps fatigue clouded his judgement or it was just pure bravado?

In anycase its a dogfight that passed into legend.


No doubt squid, I am sure he saw those two SE5s and saw it as a sign of fate but once the battle was joined by the rest of the SE5s the writing was on the wall and he had joined a battle he could have no chance in withdrawing. Kinda makes you wonder what we would have done in a similar situation, having that many kills and knowing your skill and having the advantage of suprise would have been enough to trigger the predator instinct in anyone.

BTW Was Mccudden shot down or did he survive the war? I saw those quotes, were the excerpts from memiors or from an interview shortly after the fight?
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#52 J2_squid

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 16:44

Mccudden died shortly after the se5a he was ferrying back from england to franch crashed shorlty after take off. He died from his injuries.

The qoutes are excerpts from his memoirs (Ive just read them recently). The book was published before his death.
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#53 Sirocco

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 16:52

BTW Was Mccudden shot down or did he survive the war? I saw those quotes, were the excerpts from memiors or from an interview shortly after the fight?

Jump back to the top of page 3. ;) It's still startling to see his age when he died.
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#54 Gisbod

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 17:46

Voss was just 20 when he died..
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#55 Gisbod

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 17:51

The slight desaturation of the landscape colors used in this video is a huge improvement to the looks of the terrain. I hope the devs take note of this and realize how much it helps and I don't think it would be that difficult for them to make the change. I mentioned this shortly after ROF first came out and here is proof of the improvement.

I watched the video again and I'm really impressed with it, very professional looking.

Well, I'm with you on that - I think the colours are a bit too bright and jolly for a moody WW1 sim..

I was hoping the HDR would give the effect produced in the video, but it's still unusable for the external views for making videos - I still think it needs a tweak - it took about 2 minutes to produce the effect I was after in Vegas.. ;)
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#56 HotTom

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 18:56

Voss was just 20 when he died..



Here's the common grave where Voss and Boehme are buried:

Ball also was 20. Here's where he crashed. He is buried very near by in a German cemetery:

Attached Files


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#57 J2_squid

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:28

We are wandering off a bit here but I think its a pertinent point. As mentioned I recently read Mccuddens Autobiography. I found it rather sad. You could detect the youth in his writing and a certain naivety.

Richthofen provides a fair contrast, his confidence and bravado are certainly there, but again you get the impression of Naivety of youth again.

I think that given their age they did show an incredible amount of maturity and certainly bravery, but you can tell they were pretty much kids.

I also think that Richthofens death was due to stress. After all he broke just about evert rule he drummed into his jasta, and as a result died. His behaviour was totally out of character. We will never know what he was thinking.

Ball, the ulitmate risk taker just reached the end of the line I think. Nobody could of sustained behaviour like his and survived. Here is an extract from one of his letters home

“Am feeling very poo-poo today. Five of my best pals were done in yesterday, and I think it so rotten”

Incredible language choice. It would seem he also chose gardening as an escape from his war.

“Will you do me the great favour of sending me one packet of marrow seeds, one of carrots, and a good big packet of mustard and cress? Also I would like few flower seeds, one packet of sweet peas and any other flowers that will grow quickly.

I have only just missed being done in today. I was on 7 o'clock patrol and I saw over the lines a lot of transports in a wood. I went over the lines in order to have a good look, so that I could report the place, the old huns did not like it. They surrounded us with shells from their archie guns, and at last we were hit. One of my cylinders was smashed off, also the machine got a few through it. Only just missed my leg.

I got up at 6am. It was raining , so I could not fly. However I got my tools and set to work on my garden, for rainy days are just right for setting seeds. In three hours I managed to dig a piece of ground 12 feet by 6 feet. In this I planted green peas. I hope to get in a few rows of beans tomorrow, if I have time to dig another piece of ground.”

Incredible! Notice he asked for fast growing flowers.

Im sure they were well aware of the risks they took, but that they also possesed the imortallity that youth gives you. Even so they were amazing individuals, especially given their young years.

The above letters were taken from "Fighter Heroes of WW1" by Joshua Levin. An excellent book, grab a copy if you can, you wont be dissapointed.
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#58 hq_Jorri

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:31

Squid, can you recommend a good read on Albert Ball?
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#59 J2_squid

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:33

Afraid I cant. Im sure some of the other chaps will be able to. Do take a look at Fighting Heroes though. Whilst it primarily focuses on the RFC, its full of gems like the above and gives some very perceptive insight into their characters.
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#60 Gisbod

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:39

I've just finished "on a wing and a prayer" by Joshua Levine.. But it sounds like the same book I reckon.. All excerpts and quotes.. Great read.. And "Aces Falling" by Peter Hart.. Similar stuff.. Love the first hand accounts
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#61 HotTom

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:45

Jorri,

There's a new book that came out just last month on Ball. No review yet so I have no idea whether it's any good:

http://www.amazon.co...79827550&sr=8-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co...BERT-BALL-VC-FI … 550&sr=8-1

I've read this one and it's quite good. It was originally published about 15 years ago, paperback came out last year:

http://www.amazon.co...79827550&sr=8-7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co...bert-Ball-VC-Ch … 550&sr=8-7

HT
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#62 J2_squid

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:46

Yes Gisbod it was republished with a different name for some reason. I dont usually like second hand accounts. The Osprey books tend to be a bit sterile "Ace __________ then shot down a plane on the 14th of september, followed by 2 others later that week" etc. Ill keep a look out for Aces Falling
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#63 Miggins

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 20:01

I've just finished "on a wing and a prayer" by Joshua Levine.. But it sounds like the same book I reckon.. All excerpts and quotes.. Great read.. And "Aces Falling" by Peter Hart.. Similar stuff.. Love the first hand accounts

Just got back from town where I saw "Aces Falling" a bookshop window (so I bought it).

Had the "Fighting Heroes of WW1" for a little while now, I usually take it on holidays as it's style of short excerpts fits in well for when I'm waiting for the missus to actually get ready for wherever it is we are going to visit.
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#64 Gisbod

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 20:20

"Aces Falling" was a little dry for the first chapter then when you get to the pilot accounts it's absolutely riveting! There's one about Richthofen being shot down with his skull fracture (from both pilots) - incredible how he survived that one..
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#65 rabu

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:21

I've just finished "on a wing and a prayer" by Joshua Levine.. But it sounds like the same book I reckon.. All excerpts and quotes.. Great read.. And "Aces Falling" by Peter Hart.. Similar stuff.. Love the first hand accounts


I'm reading Sagittarius Rising by Lewis, yet again.. the second time. It's one of the most moving accounts of the war told from a flyers perspective that I have read.

Please check your PM here.
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#66 rabu

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 01:25

Hay everyone, did none of you notice the color change improvement in Gisbod's video?
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#67 hq_Jorri

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:08

Thanks for the tips everyone, thanks Tom will take a look at an online bookshop for those.

Rabu: I think it's a great effect that nicely stylises his video, but I wouldn't like it that way in-game. The world IS bright and colourful, and even though WWI was gritty, I don't want to feel like I'm flying around in Band of Brothers all the time just for the sake of it.
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#68 rabu

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 15:26

There are only parts of his film where he turned it way down, yes, that would look very gloomy and would be just as bad as the current, oversaturated greens and rivers if it were in the whole game, the rest had just a slight desaturation and that is the part I'm talking about, that part, if default, would really improves the looks of the terrain.
I just found out from Jason that there is an adjustment in a cfg file for saturation. Apparently this was added at some time after the original comments about saturation were brought up a year ago or so. I should have done some searches for the subject, but assumed that if Gisbod didn't use it there wasn't an in game adjustment for it.

I'm doing some testing on it when I get a chance and will post some comparisons if any one is interested.
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#69 hq_Jorri

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 15:27

Sounds good, Rabu.
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#70 J2_squid

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 15:28

Yes please Rabu. I love tweaking and the desaturation levels are dying to be played with.

Let us know how you get on (with screenies) :)
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#71 Gisbod

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 16:40

I'd be interested too.. For the video it was a blend of black and white (about 40%) and old film effect (5%)
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#72 hq_Jorri

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 17:57

Jorri,

There's a new book that came out just last month on Ball. No review yet so I have no idea whether it's any good:

http://www.amazon.co...79827550&sr=8-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.amazon.co...BERT-BALL-VC-FI … 550&sr=8-1

Never judge a book by its cover….OOPS I did, and moved on :) that looks horribly tacky.

Just ordered Albert Ball v.c. by Chaz Bowyer. Looking forward to seeing it arrive in the mail! thanks.
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#73 =FB=Chapay

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 20:27



see from 1:20
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#74 hq_Jorri

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 20:35

Dogfights: the first dogfighters 2/5

…..is now obsolete :D
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#75 rabu

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 01:43

Yes please Rabu. I love tweaking and the desaturation levels are dying to be played with.

Let us know how you get on (with screenies) :)


Will do.. weekend is coming up and should have some time to experiment, also put in the extra RAM that arrived this week. Hope it will boost up my detail levels a bit too.. it was another thing I was going to get back with everyone about, I think it will really help.
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#76 IronHound

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 02:56

Behind the times, but I just saw this. After downloading the demo, Ive been scouring the net for information regarding the famous aces, and was thrilled to see this released. While Wikipedia is nice, it doesn't put an image in your head like youtube does. I have to say, I just saw The Red Baron recently, so I had wondered what had happened with Voss. Also, I do believe your dogfights and acting in the movie where far superior to Red Baron's. ;)

Overall, great job. I really liked it.
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#77 Gisbod

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 08:15

Thanks Ironhound.. ;)

The Red Baron movie and the Dogfight series just seem so over the top to me. I wish Spielberg would make a WW1 (aerial) film along the lines of "Saving Private Ryan" - Where it's more of a reality film, and not looking like they're all driving Tie fighters round the sky.. :lol:
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#78 Gisbod

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 08:36

ps Does anyone know if we can get rid of the onscreen messages?

I had a couple of great clips ruined by "all enemy aircraft down" or "you have been killed - press esc to exit" :roll:
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#79 Miggins

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 09:12

I noticed that when I was trying to get footage for the competition Gisbod, even though I had "subtitles" off I was seeing these (there's one in my video still).

Other than making an actual mission (rather than the QMB) and adding an EA far away from the "acton" I don't think we can get rid of these messages. Using the QMB all flights of EA seem to spawn at the same distance from you, you cannot have one group spawn really far away (so you don't get the "all enemies have been defeated" message) when you get your combat shot from one cockpit, and I can't think of a way to get rid of the "you have been killed" message either (at least in QMB).
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#80 Gisbod

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 10:29

Thanks Miggins..

I was wondering whether there was something in the start-up file settings perhaps?
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