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Hanriot Dupont HD1


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#41 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 11:34

Lovely work!

Ming
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#42 Hellbender

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 11:41

One step closer towards seeing my dream come true!

Now let's hope it doesn't fly just like the Nieuport 17, according to neoqb.
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J5_Hellbender


#43 O_WolfPac

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 12:58

Ming

Vodka i believe gets lot more answers than Beer !

To be honest ming, i dont need the SDK for alongtime yet :)
Ive built the outside skin ,,,but not touched the inside structure or wings structure.
Plus no Pilots view cockpit made to internal version

I have not even made the external cockpit you see in 3rd person view

What does SDK mean / stand for ? why wait for a SDK,,, before starting a 3d model ?

I thought 3d max studios was the Software , Developement is at my time schedule :) , and The Kit is the Skin Viewer that allows me to see and Ape the style the 3D team require :)

I have been looking at the rise of flight planes since the day they flight sim was released and 3rd person view INGAME is golden for looking at the plane in close detail ,to see how and what the 3d team did and how they created the planes , and learn the style of 3d modelling.

Then Rise of flight released the Skin Viewer program :D My Holy Grail :D

This program is my reference tool , its open whilst 3dmax is open , i can look at the planes and count the polygons of any item on any plane , lets say a Left front wing strut on the Spad , look at the shape they make the polygons and count the total amount the wingstrut has then switch to 3d max and make to the same number of polygons wingstrut ,, easy !

Granted counting a Wing is HARD ! so i roughly estimated after around ,,, well lets just say to much time to admit

Thats how i have been making this Hanriot HD1 plane

Also the Zeppelin ,,,in away , but different :)

The Dolphin looks like it has the most polygons but i may be totally wrong its just my opinion.

The hanriot is just made by looking at alot of the planeset then keeping to the same format

I must admit , again , The Rise of Flight 3D Team , have made the planes look much, much more polygons than what they actually have , the ILLUSION is a master piece of Alpha Channels and 2 sided texturing, with crafty if not sneaky :) 3d artwork to compliment it all.

Saying all this the Hanriot HD1 , may not be good enough to be ingame , but hey if i didnot learn and have ago , The Zeppelin would just be a dream.
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#44 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 17:01

I was worried that you'd feel upset if you get something wrong early days Wolf, remembering the Mars craft that confused itself into crashing on Mars (metres/feet thing)

What does SDK mean / stand for ?

Software Development Kit, like Apple apps. Apple tells the developer how to hook into the main application, they leave hooks in the main code (where variables are exposed) where developers can insert their own code

why wait for a SDK,,, before starting a 3d model ?

I'm talking specifically about models that will be for sale from third-party developers (who charge for the model)

We can all make models for fun regardless I think, and right now of course: but my advice is targeting people who feel they might want to create models that will be for sale at the neoqb/777 Studios sites

The tricky bits are the levels of detail models, there will need to be a number of LOD models. Far away a plane has a lower level of detail than up close, so we can take advantage of this to make faraway models less detailed, less level-of-detail - saving much render-time. You can see this in IL-2's panel setting. And I bet you've already noticed poor LOD implementation in sims/games, where planes/objects visibly 'flick' from one shape into another shape as they move towards and away from you

The other tricky bit is the damage model, and there research will need to be done to find out how a particular plane falls to pieces under external forces, with each jigsaw-piece of the model having its own place in a hierarchical tree. Your leg bone's connected to your thigh bone, your thigh bone's connected to your hip bone etc http://lyricsplaygro...mdrybones.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://lyricsplaygro...com/alpha/songs … ones.shtml

I cannot know what you know yet dear reader, forgive me please if the grandmothers/eggs rule applies.

Rise of flight released the Skin Viewer program

Ooh interesting, thanks :)

may not be good enough to be ingame

If not immediately you can modify it under the SDK, lots of people will be helping each other, there will be how-to's and tutorials, you won't be on your own mate. Don't you find that the hardest part is always making that first piece so's you have something to work on. It's when you have nothing to start with, that's the tricky bit. And you're doing just fine no worries :)

Ming
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#45 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 18:10

The skin viewer really is the holy grail for ROF skinners, thanks again :)


Really looking forward to seeing the HD1 completed one day, great work :)
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#46 O_WolfPac

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 20:14

skiners viewer only shows you EXTERNAL 3d model :0)

But

Ingame 3rd person view shows you INTERNAL and EXTERNAL :0)
so you make the piolot view cockpit using ingame screenshots and video tracks :P and external modelling with skinner viewer.

Common sense really
I know im not alone 3d modelling before the sdk :)

ive seen a little fokker hanging around somewhere LMAO
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#47 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 21:27

I think I've seen the same Fokker ;)
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#48 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 23:52

"No these were Fokkers!"

Ming
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#49 O_WolfPac

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 01:54

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Hy-iA_q4J3k" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">
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#50 hq_Jorri

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 05:11

"No these were Fokkers!"

Ming

Wasn't it "no these were Messerschmidts"? :? :?: :|
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#51 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 09:19

No it was definitely Fokkers. The second time while you were phoning for a pizza

Ming
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#52 O_WolfPac

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 23:58

PC230SL
Thanks for the links , really handy :)
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#53 GATT

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:06

Wolfpac, ask An.Petrovich for very technical stuff about the HD.
He has some ;)
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#54 O_WolfPac

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 02:09

Image

Image

Image

Image

GATT you mention "An.Petrovich" , im sorry i do not know him , but if he can help an any way i am happy , at the moment i have most of the photos that are available online and alot of data sent from alot of people here in the forums regarding engine data , not worked out which engine should be in the handiot hd1 as it did have several , or if the Machine gun will be central or side mounted like N17 , this is why i have not really worked on the front cowling or nose section of the plane yet :)


In the above piccies , i have totally rebuilt the top and bottom wings including the shape that i hope you can see reflecting wing ribs , i have not built the inner wing ribs yet :) just given the wing a look that they are present.

I still have shading issues in several areas like the fuselage tail area which i will get round to fixing up .
Cut out Ailerons , added wing guide wires , wheel structure and wheels and wires and rope binding around axle

ONE thing that is getting me confused is the centre of the top wing right infront of the pilot, How is the top wings connected together ?
Below is a piccie of the topwing rear spar connection , but i do not have a photo of topwing front spar , I guess it would be the same but any information in this top wing centre would be good right at this moment , so i can add it to the 3d model
Image
Anyway :) catch you soon
Regards
Tony
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#55 ImPeRaToR

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:29

Great stuff Wolfpac :)
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#56 Dutch2

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 19:21

indeed this is great :geek:
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#57 SYN_Vander

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 21:36

Wolfpac,

Have you seen this video?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=-B9XpiViAv0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">

At 0:30 you'll get an idea of the number of components that makes up the 3d model…:)
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#58 NewGuy_

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 00:25

Starting to look sharp. I read somewhere on the Internet that the Italians considered this machine to be better than a Spad 13! It should be something to behold, when we d/l her in the store! Will it take more than a year to realize this plane or is she something we can expect in the fall? Either way I am looking forward to this machine, very much so!

Maybe one day you will model the Camel Comic and the 2F1 Camel. Both should come in handy when coastal operations and Zepplins arrive! =)
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Something something SPAD. Something something then dive away. 


#59 O_WolfPac

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 02:52

Hi :)

Vanderstok
, i have seen that video and i still clicked and re-watched it LOL :D Amazing quality , totally out of this world !
Not just 3D model but the texturing aswell makes for a sweet but complexed example

I still use the skinner viewer alot at present infact, i did a slightly lateral thinking view of how the viewer program can assist me in keeping the 3D model of the Hanriot HD1 in the same build style as the ROF 3D Team creators made the plane sets we fly presently.

So i learned how DDS files work and then used the uvmap layer as top layer like a SKIN :)
Ive done this for all plane sets and so now i can compare parts of the planes with other planes and see the best route that works best for the Hanriot plane , hope that makes sense hehehe

This allows me to COUNT and create the polygons to same values as Rise of Flight , i realise this is really over the top quality checking on my behalf but i would be very reluctant to learn and create a plane or zeppelin thats polygon modelled to high for the flight sim engine and our processors we fly with at present , FPS rates react to polygon counts so i figure get it right from day 1 , thats why i rebuilt the wings recently :)

Few pics below of a spad in uvmap skin so you can see how easy it is to count the polygons
Image
Image

Then i changed tactics again so i can see internal parts and components and how they are made and created.
So i gave the spad a INVISIBLE SKIN so i can see the internal bits :D

Image

The skin view program is golden ticket to see how and why parts are made, its very good and at present its my personal SDK , as for how things are broken up you can see the breaks in the skin viewer but only if you look very very carefully .
Parts name list structure ,example LeftWheel name or Middle left wing part file name , well that information is the unknown bit to us ,but then again ,,,,when it comes to animation,,,,

I have no clue about animation of damaged parts it scares the pants off me ,but i know im working on the easy bits now in comparison to what will come.

NewGuy
thanks :) timeframe is , i havent got one hehehe its a learning curve and it may , may not even get into the flight sim if its not good enough , but im giving it a go , and thinking out the box to get it right for approval .
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#60 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:58

count the polygons

There are quads there and triangles, the model-count will be for triangles rather than polygons

i gave the spad a INVISIBLE SKIN so i can see the internal bits

Cool dude! :)

over the top quality checking

No not at all Wolfy, this work sounds fascinating, following your digging-down to the juicy bits with great interest mate. Squid's off on a beano, let us know if you need the thread tidied up

animation

That chap's around who's built models already, nice bloke and he's offered us advice. IIRC I asked him if there's a how-to but then I forgot to check his reply. Anyway more information must be available somewhere or we'd not have new models, although we must be patient and not nag the neoqb team too much for er, too much again :) (reminding other readers not you mate, I know you're cool and patient. You have to be doing stuff like this yes) :)

Softimage Autodesk has a focus on animation (yes it is a nightmare) :) and there's a PhysX wind tunnel in there too Wolfy. I'm only a beginner but give me a shout if you need anything, coffee mostly :)

Ming
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#61 SYN_Vander

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:04

Smart thinking Wolfpac!

I hope Neoqb can give you the 3d models and textures of the prop, gun and instruments so you don't have to make that yourself. It will speed things up and I would like them to look the same/consistent across aircraft.
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#62 O_WolfPac

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:52

Vanderstok , i have a problem before that question….

Which engine should the aircraft have installed ….
LeRhone 9J Engine
OR
Clerget Engine


The front engine cowling will be different holes because of style of engine intakes and cooling vents

I dont know which would suit better to be honest..

Need that answering fairly quick so SHOUT out of hold your piece :D times ticking

Any experts on engines here , if so,,,, post ,,,, i would like to get the nose area done right after i complete the tailplane area so a week to deside.


hmmm … other possible problem maybe..

Is there a polygon limit to the interior structure , airframe like my last photo ,anyone noticed the spad13 seems to have less wingribs than it should have inside the wing ,but detailed fuselage spars , yet the se5a seems to have more wingribs but less detailed fuselage structure , i think theres a limit to the inside structuring, hope this is not the first barrier to climb over.
Also noticed the polycount on a rib of any plane is less than the poly count of the wingcore value , if a wing core is 16polygon wing shape then the wingrib will be as low as 11-13 polygon shape , is this to keep polys to a tight margin or just pure fluke, and im looking to closly.
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#63 SYN_Vander

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:45

According to both Profile Publications and Windsock Datafiles the Le Rhone 9J engine was used. Originally the 110 hp variant and later the 120 hp Le Rhone 9Jb. For this later engine both Profile and Windsock have some performance figures so it might be a good choice to use the Le Rhone 9Jb for the aircraft.
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#64 J.j.

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:47

Hanriot HD 1 were suited with Le Rhône 9J engines, from 110 to 130HP.
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#65 NewGuy_

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 23:03

It is my understanding that Belgium pilots flew the F1 and the HD1, right? So I will get to own this machine and the Camel. Then I will have a good representation of Belgium scouts, not to mention one of Italys' favorite scouts! Should be a lot of fun, as a T and B machine, not too unlike my beloved F1 Camel. This machine was introduced first in 1916, right? This will be "my 1916 Camel!" lol Total, unmitigated, bawls to the wall coolness!

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Something something SPAD. Something something then dive away. 


#66 O_WolfPac

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 04:55

NewGuy Thank you :D
Believe it or not i did not have that video but as i was watching it i saw the one part my photos didnot show properly and i really am glad you posted it :)

Appreciated and welcome Salute :)

the hanriot HD1 was actually a really popular aircraft for several countries , but yes Belgium ,Dutch,Italians, and of course the french,, used this aircraft plus many other countries :)

From reading more and more about the plane your right about turn and burn flying style ,100% sure your correct with this, reports say it flew like the spad series , maybe its because of the way the wing is created ,plus with the appearance of drooping bottom wing with no diheaderal on the bottom wing the same as the spad ,but im sure the plane will be very welcoming to the above countries pilots :)

Thank you for the video , it really solved the centre joining point of the top wing and even shows the bolts jutting out the wing at the spar points ,where its locked into place .

Will post some more updated photos over the weekend.

Best Regards
Tony
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#67 J.j.

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 08:34

the hanriot HD1 was actually a really popular aircraft for several countries , but yes Belgium ,Dutch,Italians, and of course the french,, used this aircraft plus many other countries :)

Tony

I have to disagree. Even if Hanriot was a French aricraft builder, in fact his plane arrived at a time when the SPAD VII and XIII were widespread to all fighter units of he Aéronautique Militaire. Therefore, few were used by the French in action. It was no because of the aircraft, which had some qualities and was better than the Nieuport, but because of the time of its arrival at the front.
But I agree when you say this is an important WW1 plane for Italy or Belgium. It was used at a good number, to score many victories by these pilots.
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#68 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 09:00

Gorgeous plane ta for the video Newguy

bawls to the wall

Thank you for cleaning that up :)

Wolfy if you're not in UK I could photograph it for you if it's still on show somewhere. With a model-builder's eye I mean, rivets :)

Ming
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#69 O_WolfPac

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 09:57

I live in New Zealand , born UK ,but ,,i escaped :D

Well from the video it says the Handriot HD1 is at :)

RAF Museum London
Grahame-White Factory Aircraft Collection,
Grahame Park Way,
London, NW9 5LL

http://www.rafmuseum...-collection.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.rafmuseum....uk/london/coll … ection.cfm

It looks like they have a smashing collection of WW1 aircraft, so if you did go visit , please take ALOT of memory chips/sticks for the camera :D
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#70 NewGuy_

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 17:20

Wolfpac,
I am glad that I could be useful. I will send any and all future films of this and other machines being modeled, to you, Ming, and the other model makers. I forget that the model makers do not always have the time to look for footage and that footage can help the process along. It is a great deal of fun to contribute in any way to the project.
Best,
MJ

P.S.@ Ming- I really must control my posting impulses sometimes…..bawls to the wall…..what was I thinking?…. :lol:
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Something something SPAD. Something something then dive away. 


#71 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 21:41

Newguy :)

I'm only a dabbler mate. Actually building models, it would be too much hard work for me, one must be very dedicated and I'm a crazy beatnik so transient pleasure is my motivating principle

I knew I'd crowbar crazy beatnik in here somewhere eventually :)

Ming
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#72 NewGuy_

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 21:54

@Ming
Well we need all the crazy beatniks we can get in this world, so it is a pleasure to find one on the ROF forum!
S!
MJ
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Something something SPAD. Something something then dive away. 


#73 Dutch2

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 18:52

He wolfpac, your are not from the RedBaron lonewolf squadron I suppose, was my Email helpful!!!
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If I wrote something in this forum that is hurting or abuse a member, organisation or country? Let me know by pm for the corrections, please do not react back by bashing/trolling/flaming or other personal attacks!

Yep I’m an 2009 Rof pre-order buyer and one of the few that did buy the Sikorsky game.

#74 J.j.

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 19:06

I've just checked it on an article I had. All HD-1 used by Aéronautique Militaire belge were suited with Le Rhône 9JB engines, 120HP.

I can send you the scans of the article if you need (proofs of what I'm saying :D ), but I'm afraid it lacks of technical details, it is only about the use of the airplane in combat by the belgian pilots.
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#75 O_WolfPac

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 02:05

Dutch :) wolfpac origins was from old games i used to make (Mod n Maps) stuff for in Countersrike and before that SpecOps , but it was a long long time ago :D
RAF_Wolf for many years , but im not from red baron sorry , i do know there was a rafwolf in redbaron but its not me
The File you sent Dutch , it seems =FB=Viks had the same idea and had already sent it aswell
Still its the thought that counts Dutch and greatly appreciated.

J.j Just post it here if you feel like its important , im no expert on Engines unless its a aston martin , Le Rhône 9 series does seem to be the engine.
The reason i was asking about the types of engine is so i can make the engine cowling air cooling holes in the correct places.

This WolfPac name will be changing soon(ish) as im also trying to learn Mysql and PhPbb to create a website and forum but i feel abit out of my depth with this sort of building :)

Anyway , Thanks for the replies

The plane build order is simple goals
1.Finish the tailplane area Fix shading issues add wires etc
2.Build the internal fuselage airframe
3.Build the nose and cowling
4.Build the wingribs and spars in the internal wing airframe
5.Show Rise of Flight and put earplugs in my ears to soften the sound of laughter from 3D ROF Team :D
6.Go The PUB !
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#76 J.j.

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:29

J.j Just post it here if you feel like its important , im no expert on Engines unless its a aston martin , Le Rhône 9 series does seem to be the engine.
The reason i was asking about the types of engine is so i can make the engine cowling air cooling holes in the correct places.

Uhu… Just a small detail I forgot to talk about… The article is in French… Are you still interested? :D
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#77 hq_Jorri

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:37

Hellbender will translate it surely? :D
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#78 O_WolfPac

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 01:25

J.j Yes french is okay :)
My french is ………well …..not used enough,,,, Not many people in New Zealand speak french, but i alot of the people that read and follow this thread are french so please post , someone will be able to translate :)

It would be good to see its got me intrigued the engine type and horsepower (HP)

Good to see
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#79 J.j.

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 14:20

New Zealand huh? Cool country, I'd love to go there but it is slightly far from Europe :D

As for the article, you'll find it here:

http://www.filefront...7041111/HD-1.7z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.filefront...7041111/HD-1.7z
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#80 O_Smiladon

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 22:42

Hi J.j.,

Love to have ya. Come over anytime.

Got a nice cold beer in the fridge.

Smiladon
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