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windows 7 and MS Sidewinder FF2


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#121 Riemann73

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 19:22

Do you know where I can download the FF2 driver for WIN 7 ? Thanks in advance.
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#122 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 10:27

You can run the stick under Win7's native drivers, everything works fine

Ming
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#123 Riemann73

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 10:40

Thanks Ming, I will try again ASAP.

!S
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#124 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 02:10

You can run the stick under Win7's native drivers, everything works fine

Ming
Also you can download a prog called Pinnacel witch will allow you to map all the buttons just like the sidewinder software, it works great I use it
Here is the link http://pinnaclegamep...r.com/downloads
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#125 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 18:01

Just a little Bump :)
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#126 BroadSide

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 17:08

Just read this post at SimHQ from KnowBreaks…makes total sense.
Anyone tried this yet?



One cannot help but wonder if the issues reported (and for that matter, the seemingly "random" nature of this issue) might not have to do with different USB controllers.

Motherboards implement USB through various controllers and the MB "chipset"; I've had loads of fun trying to resolve issues created by crappy USB controllers - especially where the external device put any kind of electrical load at all on the USB port. ("Load" wouldn't apply in this context to a simple mouse, keyboard or camera…load in this case is something that draws significant power through the USB port - an external hard drive or the FFB joystick, although I admittedly haven't checked to see what load the FFB joystick is. It has motors, and therefore has substantial load compared to a mouse, etc.). And your FFB joystick isn't terribly different.

Anyway, to cite one example, I had a cheap-o motherboard; ran OK far as that goes. I could use USB devices like a mouse or keyboard or even a 'thumb' drive no problem. But whenever I plugged an external hard disk in, it would stall, act erratic and even lock up or reboot the entire machine, depending.

After research, I discovered certain USB controllers are more or less known for this behavior when faced with particularly demanding loads (hard drives have motors; they draw an amount of current in some cases that approaches the USB spec limit - 500 mA - from the port). I discovered the cheap-o motherboard had one of the well-known problem USB controllers (imagine that - cheapo parts on a cheapo MB *lol*)

I went and bought a PCI USB2 add-in card, based on the (highly recommended) NEC USB controller chip, and had no further issues.

For those thinking "It's not an issue in other games besides RoF, so it's not hardware", consider the fact that each game controls FFB differently (evidenced by settings allowing the game to alter how much feedback)…so it's entirely possible RoF controls these devices in some way that the USB controller just don't like, where other games might be OK.

This is another example of how sometimes people who use unpowered hubs have issues with certain USB devices while others don't; and how some (because they use a powered hub) never had issues to begin with. But (remember this) a powered hub by itself isn't guaranteed to make things any better…buy a cheap unit, and you could be back to the cheap USB controller issue.

My experience is that, since USB has always been marketed as…well, universal…folks just think one device is the same as any other, and that all ports are created equal. Not at all so, from an electrical perspective. The USB specs are full of design recommendations and requirements, and to be honest, they are just not adhered to in many cases. A good example is the proliferation of fans, lights and (God forbid) cup warmers that are sold for USB ports. Read this, know it, and remember it well: USB is not - and never was intended to be - a power outlet. The devices that use it as such are not within the guidelines set out by the USB specs. This got so bad that the governing body of the USB spec had to create an entirely new class of device ("USB decorations") to address the issues.

The specs change over time; USB3, I believe, is intended to provide even greater speed and (get this) more power to connected devices.

Another example of things you can buy that was never designed or intended on the USB specs are extension cables of any type. But, you can buy them all over the place. And they work, in many applications, because the load being plugged in isn't that great, or perhaps the wires are just a bit larger, or the controller where the extension cable is plugged happens to be one of the better ones…and so on. But extension cables were explicitly forbidden in the early USB specs (1.0/1.1), because the voltage drop over the small wires can't be controlled after a certain length.

What all this leads to is seemingly "random" problems with USB. But, make no mistake - it's not random. There is a reason (and therefore an explanation) for all these issues.

Another thing to check for - although it should be no problem, just a suggestion: Check for a ferrite 'core' on the USB cable itself. Most devices have them; some don't. This is a noise suppression filter. I've seen this core solve *severe* USB load-induced noise issues in industrial applications. Less than $5 a package of 2 at Radio Shack, I think. But, perhaps a hit-or-miss when it comes to the joystick issue.

HTH

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#127 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 20:53

Thanks for sharing that ReadyMan
It might be worth a try,I'm going to look for a PCI USB card to put in my putter then I report back
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#128 ThomasH

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 21:18

Ok… this is something I have to look into. My local dealer has NEC controller cards in stock (3.0) and I'll give it a shot.
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#129 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 03:51

Ok… this is something I have to look into. My local dealer has NEC controller cards in stock (3.0) and I'll give it a shot.
Please let us know, you may get the USB card befor me.
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#130 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 16:34

No luck
Got my sidwinder FF2 today!
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#131 hq_Jorri

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 17:37

But the FFB2 connects to the grid for its power, right?
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#132 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 17:58

the FFB2

An FFB2 :)

Later sticks do yes, the ones with USB connections. There are at least two versions of that stick, model number is on the base

It has mains power but that'll be for running the motors and-

Wait a minute… you could be on to something Jorri

The stick's power supply powers both stick motors and the USB interface (we presume but do not absolutely know for sure)

It's well known that if a power supply is not highly-regulated, does not have a low output resistance, parts of the circuit can 'drag down' the voltage in other parts of the same circuit

If this is the case with this stick then one could predict that backing off the sliders for force feedback (so less power going to the motors with stick movements) - could result in the apparent USB problem with that stick in Rise of Flight being alleviated/reduced. Or perhaps just the return-to-centre 'spring' force could be backed off to test

Ming
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#133 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 02:32

Here's something, have a look at the post from Laser this helps. Stutter by using Force Feedback & Track Ir?.
Don't forget to try with triple buffering off in Nvidia control panel
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#134 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 04:38

Here's something interesting there may be a fix in the next update, go to the last page to see what Han @777 said.
TrackIR/Freetrack stutters -> problem solved (for me)
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#135 BroadSide

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 07:09

WoW!
We'd spent so much time trouble shooting this old mystery that I'd given up hope that we'd ever find an answer. I'm still super curious (I dont suffer from the problem, but am eager to help fellow flyers).
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#136 W1ndy

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 07:27

Same. This could be big. Thanks for keeping an eye on it Glow.

I just bought a Targus powered USB hub in case it was a lack of juice to the perifirals. No joy. It didn't improve the sticking.

I returned it for my money back so no damage. This patch fix will be very welcome if it happens.
Interesting that it's 'problems' in the stick that causes it. That accounts for why some FF2 sticks are fine.
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#137 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 03:32

Yes many many hours have been spent trying to figure this one out, it looks like it will be some type of software fix. :D

I don't know what its like to win the lottery but when I seen Hans post I almost Pissed myself Like a little girl :lol:
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#138 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 01:31

A fix for the TIR and MFFB Stutters is announced in 1.016 update, in the ROF news blog.

According to the post they have known about it and have tried to come up with a fix for some time now.

Deep down I aways had a feeling that they would not abandon us.

This is the evidence that support is a two way street.

Read on gentlemen
http://riseofflight....gs/default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://riseofflight....gs/default.aspx
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#139 O_Taipan

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 01:59

Sounds good! 1.016 is the immersion patch, Ffb plus landing ground details and light sources with reflections and sun glare :)
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#140 BroadSide

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 08:54

I wonder if any of our testing was of any help…?
Perhaps not, but our intent has been realized (apparently) in that those of you with the best stick ever made will be able to use it w/o the stutter issues!
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#141 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 23:26

I would think they investigated every thing that was posted on the forms just to save some time.I think
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#142 BSS_DrGlow

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 04:51

For anyone who's interested.

I used my TIR profile that I like for ROF and did not reset my curves in the TIR software.

I set TIR smoothing to Ten, then I set ROF smoothing to ten then I set the frame rate limiter to unlimited and I started the game.

I found that there were no stutters but the panning was way too fast and very touchy, the slightest little twitch was being picked up by the TIR, so to fix this I set the panning speed down too 0.7

in the motion control panel, that did the trick as far as slowing it down and getting rid of the touchiness.

The only problem with slowing down the panning speed is you lose your rang of motion. I had to move my head too far right or left to look at the tail of my plane.

Too correct this I moved the rang of motion curve up with a few clicks of the motion curve arrow. That's it

If you play with these two settings you will have nice smooth panning, and if you have to you can make a few small adjustments to your curves.

Anyhow I hope it works for the guys/gals that need it

Sorry guys I made a mistake in the screen shot

In the Motion control box where the blue arrow is it Shows a zero in the smoothing setting that is wrong

Mine is set to 10 and I have perfect panning with that setting, smooth as silk no stutters
although I started at zero and worked my way up to ten



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