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g940 Spiky throttle rotaries solution


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#1 FifthColumnist

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 18:02

Hi all,

I took my g940 throttle apart today to see if I could fix the spiky rotaries problem, here is what I found:

This will void your warranty and you could destroy your throttle I accept absolutely no responsibility if you damage your unit.


I saw a chap over on simhq had done the same thing so I don't take credit for the idea.

I carefully peeled the 4 rubber feet before removing the 12 screws on the underside. The base panel was lifted away without placing stress on the data cable that is attached to it and the circuit board in the body.

Attached File  g940 throttle guts.jpg   470.43KB   2760 downloads
(This was taken after I had release the cable fixing the problem)

It seems that the data cable (indicated with an arrow) was slightly trapped under the retaining screw in the centre of the image. I loosened this screw allowing the cable to slide between the two guides when the throttle reaches the end of its travel in either direction.

The chap over on simhq reasoned that the screw was placing tension on the white data cable plug when the throttle is moved, however I think this may be incorrect, is it possible that the screw was crushing the cable enough to change its resistance as it was stretched with throttle lever movement, you can see in the picture an area of the cable which appears to have been squashed, either way it works a charm

S!
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#2 Viper69

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 12:46

That is a good fix, may be a temporary one if the material in the contuctor get metal fatigue from moving. Good catch though. I dont have a G940 but those who do may definetly want to look into it.
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#3 Kudlius

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 13:02

I am crying everyday because of this sh~t :cry:
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#4 hairylegs

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 13:11

Your mission should you choose to accept it.
I would say it is more likely that the insulation of the internal wires (within the grey chafing spaghetti) was compromised by squishing, allowing intermitent shorting (short circuiting) when movement pulled them together. You could check by removing the spaghetti from the plug end as far as the wound, check for damage on the wires and tape any breaches in the insulation (with good quality electrical tape or heatshrink if you dont mind soldering). Dont worry if there are just a few strands broken (though i doubt there will be) as these wires only deal with microamps and one strand would be enough. Yes one tiny strand alone would increase the resistance marginally, but this would be accounted for when you recallibrate after assembly.
Let us know how you go as i have a g940 that i am deeply in love with, and while it has never been unfaithful, it seems as though some have.
Good luck
Louie
P.S. This message will self destruct in three minutes.
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#5 FifthColumnist

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 18:53

Yes I think the internal insulation is probably it, I'll open it up again when the problem starts up again.

There is light at the end of the tunnel thought its such a simple defect that I would have thought if (and its a big if) Logitech cared to they could rectify it in later manufacturing batches. My stick would be from an early manufacturing batch as I pre-ordered iirc.

S!
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#6 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 21:12

Fix works, thanks a million!
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#7 hairylegs

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 00:55

Yes I think the internal insulation is probably it, I'll open it up again when the problem starts up again.

There is light at the end of the tunnel thought its such a simple defect that I would have thought if (and its a big if) Logitech cared to they could rectify it in later manufacturing batches. My stick would be from an early manufacturing batch as I pre-ordered iirc.

S!

Thats the thing, Logitech do care alot about customer satisfaction. Let 'em know and it WILL be fixed. Everything these days is made in a sweatshop somewhere, and with not enough children available the odd adult gets a job. Their wrists are stronger and hence overtightening can occur. Until we reduce our demand to a level sustainable by the underprivillaged, prices will rise and things like this may happen.
Rest assured, somewhere in China an recently retrenched man is having trouble wiping his bottom with two broken wrists as he romantically yearns for the days when he was guaranteed at least a meagre meal for work on the communal farm that his ex boss just bought from the state for his pet flamingo for which he cares very much…
It's a cruel world
Louie
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#8 IRFC_SmokinHole

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 23:40

I am on my third throttle. The second went directly to the engineers in California so that they could research the problem. Good to know that there is a possible fix because I really don't want another extra stick and rudder–Really I don't.
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#9 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 18:59

The above mentioned fix worked for me for a couple months, but eventually the spikes came back. It's really just because the wires for the rotaries are so thin and the connectors so flimsy. So here's what I did to solve the problem once and for all:

Pull the leads down from the throttle levers a little bit so that you have an adequate amount of slack at the connection where the leads plug into the throttle circuit board. Hold the leads in place where the screw discussed above is supposed to be, and ensure that you can move the throttle through its range of motion. You should be able to arrive at a balance where you can move the throttle while keeping the wires in place, so that the leads and connectors do not move at all as you move the throttle.

Now that you've got adequate slack where the leads meet the board, use RC model epoxy to glue the leads against the screw's mounting bracket. The screw simply didn't do a good enough job of holding the wires still. If you glue them to the plastic post, you can ensure that they will not move at all despite any movement you push the throttle levers through.

That's it. Button it back up and call it a day. Problem solved (hopefully for good). I can't imagine this failing again unless the wires come un-glued inside the device. And I can always re-glue them.
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=IRFC=Air Biscuit

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#10 TX-Thunderbolt

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 13:50

This certainly isn't meant as an "I told you so", but these very types of occurrences are representative of Logitech's historical track record on game controllers. They make kickass mice and keyboards, but their sticks have always been great ideas with poor implementation. Yes, I said always.

I hope these fixes solve the problem for you guys permanently.
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#11 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 15:31

Honestly man, when the thing works well (like it is now – again – finally :)) I have no complaints. I really love the G-940. I did want to throw it out a window when the rotaries were going bonkers on me.
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#12 Viper69

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 15:35

I can immagine Jay, refer to my "dumbest things you have done in a rage" thread. I actually did that hahaha. I can sympathise with you, nothing pisses me off more then not getting what your money paid for.
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#13 sturmkraehe

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 18:15

And particularly if it is this expensive!

Actually any chance that I just can buy the stick? I have a throttle and rudder that I don't want to switch.
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#14 ATAG_Bliss

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 22:25

This certainly isn't meant as an "I told you so", but these very types of occurrences are representative of Logitech's historical track record on game controllers. They make kickass mice and keyboards, but their sticks have always been great ideas with poor implementation. Yes, I said always.

I hope these fixes solve the problem for you guys permanently.

I hear ya. I said the same thing in the main G940 thread. Now, not even several months later of all the G940 purchases, you see more threads popping up all over about G940's problems. I can only imagine the types of problems they will have several years down the line if it's already acting up only months after the purchase. I haven't completely moved in yet (tons of boxes to unpack), but I used my CH fighter stick to hang 5 large picture frames. (used it as a hammer lol) Even though I don't suggest doing that, I know I'll be impressed if I could actually somehow cause it to malfunction, even if that means trying to throw it through a piece of drywall.
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#15 Proccy

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 07:02

By a saitek x65fpro its simple brilliant :D :lol: ;) :D :P 8-)
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#16 sturmkraehe

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 09:24

is this force feed back?
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#17 MiG-77

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 09:31

No, it is force sensing stick and I consider that little immersion killer for old planes ;)

I just changed to G940 from logitech 3d twist stick and I have to say difference is huge. I could not even fly level with twist stick as it was so inaccurate (nose jumped up/down even smallest correction… and after using curves to lessen effect). Now only thing is that I automatically still try to twist my g940 and only after realizing that, I use pedals :D
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#18 sturmkraehe

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 11:54

Since I am considering to buy a ffb stick and am looking deeper into this set, I would like to know what this "spiky rotaries problem" actually is. Somebody would like to explain it to me? What kind of effect does this mean?
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#19 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:15

It's basically where the pickups/inputs from the rotary controls are not always registering (loose connection) so it causes erratic jumps in them rather than smooth transitions (like it should be) making small corrections difficult or impossible.

A good way to look at it would be if your throttle jumped from 3/4 to full power without any increments in-between (giving effectively a random dead zone at times)
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#20 sturmkraehe

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:18

With rotary you mean the rotary "sliders" of the stick?
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#21 Tom-Cundall

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:21

Image

I don't have one but from reading threads on here I think it's these controls on the throttle part of it.

Anyone?
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#22 sturmkraehe

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:25

Oh, I see. Thanks!

BTW: if this only occurs in the extrem positions of the throttle, couldn't be twisting the throttle input curves in RoF be a solution so that the extreme throttles (idle and full power) be reached earlier?
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#23 =IRFC=AirBiscuit

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 12:55

No, the problem is that the wires inside of the throttle are not held in place very well. So when you move the throttle forward/backward, the wires get pulled back and forth a little bit. This causes the connectors where the wires meet the logic board to intermittently cut out, and so you get this "fluttering" or "spiking" effect with whatever you have mapped to the rotary inputs, plus some of the throttle buttons will stop working at different points through the throttle's range of motion.

The solution is very simple: just take the throttle apart and secure the wires so that they can not be tugged around. I did this with some RC model epoxy. Mine works perfectly again.
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#24 soarfeat

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 19:28

Thanks for all the input on this problem. I was torn whether to return mine but decided for something this simple to repair, to go ahead and fix myself. It was exactly as you all described and I believe it is as Jay explained,the wires were not observed to be secured well by the retaining screw so I gently pulled a bit extra wire and secured to the plastic post using a zip tie making sure no possible binding that could wear the insulation occurs. Put it back together and no more spike movement in the least. Despite all the bad being said about this hotas, to me the G940 is quite good and adds a lot to this really great sim.
—thanks very much for the fix suggestions —
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#25 soarfeat

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 12:11

My third throttle started spiking again and also my mode switch was switching back and forth from mode 1 to mode 2 when advancing and retarding the throttle. Logitech 1 year warranty has expired so replacement out of question, however they will offer you a new one at half the retail price of $299.99 ( $150.00 ). I was not going to invest any more money in this so decided to tear into it to find the problem. After delicately peeling/cutting the main black com.wire from the throttle handle as pictured with the screw, I found one wire worn in half and another one almost worn in half. They were worn at the bottom of where the wires exit from the bottom of the handle assembly. I ended up cutting all (12) wires and extending them for a total of 8 1/2 inches from the bottom of the throttle to the 12 pin connector. The screw that was to hold this wire in place between the two guides did not have a large enough ( washer like top ) to hold the wire between the quides. The wire would pull up and get trapped between the screw and this would cause it to wear at the throttle pivot joint. So if you are receiving any spiking at this time,it is an indicator that the wires have already worn pretty badly , if in warranty I would get a new one and then open up the throttle and install a little larger washer under the existing hold down screw to keep the wire between the two plastic guides. It is important that this wire not bind anywhere,it should be able to travel a litle in this guide area, so I would not try to secure it at this point but rather insure it stays between the two guides.
cheers all–rclark
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#26 BuddyWoof

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 17:14

Can anyone post some pics of taking the throttle apart and reassembly? I want to fix my fluttering rotaries but want to minimize the chance of screw up. Thanks!
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#27 soarfeat

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 17:37

Hey BuddyWoof,
Sorry I did not have pictures of disassembly. I am just your ordinary shadetree mechanic/fixit daddy at home. I have gone from 1994 Toyota timing belts/water pumps to Barbie doll limb and head surgery – really !
Taking the G940 apart is really not all that hard. If you have a digital camera you could take a few pics before disassembling as you go so you can see how things look. I will give some tips that I found help a lot in this.
Of course you need to gently peel back the rubber feet just enough to seperate the two halves.
There are 11 screws you undo at the bottom, after removing these leave the stick inverted and gently work the two halves apart. Be careful because there is a wire connecting the two halves,so at first don't pull them apart too far. Once apart you can disconnect this to completely seperate the two halves.Then if you look to the side of each throttle you will see a red connector, this will need to be disconnected as well if you are going to take this completely apart. Just be careful when seperating these,as ususal.
To seperate the throttles you will need to remove the tensioner and then the attachment nut and bolt below it. There is a center plastic piece that has two screws that you then undo and it slides out. To remove the throttles, adjust the throttles so you can get to the top screws in the left throttle ( the one without the buttons/wheels.The handle will come off and then you can slide this out and then remove the other throttle carefully working it around that open area. Note–you will need to disconnect the twelve pin connector that runs from the throttle to the base. You can then undo the screws to the throttle to access the wires even more if needed.
Sounds like if you are checking with the spiking issues you will need to carefully peel the outer rubber coating of the wire bundle which will expose the 12 wires. They are very thin and the best thing I could find without having to special order something is an old used telephone chord ( cut and remove inner wires). An ethernet cable might work also–I'm not sure– just use something close to that diameter–I'm not an electrical engineer - :)
In checking for the bad wires, look carefully at the wires especially at areas where binding might be occurring,in my case it was not at the screw but at the base of the throttle. You will probably find two wires,I believe mine were light blue and red. I do know for a fact that the green wire-is for fwd/back on hat switch, blue–mode selector,yellow–up/down and 45 degree variants on hat switch.
So, you may not have to go as far in disassembling if you just want to resplice these bad wires together. Be sure to use good soldering technique and some thin heat shrink just for that joint,helps secure it even more and also protects from a short. A note here, I googled " how to solder since I had not done it in such detail and I found out some really intersting things that were very helpful, I also found I had not been soldering correctly my whole life and I'm 54 years old–ha !! A helpful tool in stripping such thin wire is a automatic stripper,I bought one made by "Vise Grips" " Pro Touch Grips. You can get them for around 20 bucks or so, and work great and will save you a lot of time if you are having to do many small wires like this.
Putting this back together is pretty easy. Remember to seat the two connectors at the throttles, they have little points that fit in a slot to hold them stationary.You can first put the throttle with the switches in the base first and then the left one without the handle attached will slip in from underneath and you can then attach the handle. Also it helps before attaching the two halves back, if you adjust the throttle tensioner to its mid point range ( middle of small indicator slot ).
Hope this helps, sorry again for no pictures – rclark
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#28 soarfeat

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 03:43

If you scroll about 3/4 down this page ,there is a pretty nice example of the tear down to the "wire". Again,if you are experiencing spiking,this is an indication that the wire from the R1/R2 wheel is damaged and will need repair to fix properly. The wire should travel freely between thos two plastic post,you can put a larger washer on the screw to hold it between there properly.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2973351/4.html
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#29 R_Suppards

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 06:48

I thought I was safe from the flutters but over the last day or two I've been frustrated by this. I linked R1 to the mixture of the Camel and to lose power at critical moments is teeth gnashing territory. What makes me unhappy is that this is my second throttle. My one year warranty runs out on May 31st so my faith in Logitech is a little fragile at the moment. I have sent an e-mail today so I await a response
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#30 ST_ami7b5

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Posted 12 April 2011 - 07:33

I made the repair described by OP about 6 months ago.
It worked fine for about a month, then the problem re-appeared.
So I gave up and simply stopped using R1, R2 rotaries on the throttle.

In RoF I have mapped the three bottom rotaries on joystick (meant obviously for trimming, which I use in Il-2, but is not applicable in RoF) as follows (from left to right):
- mixture
- "static" zoom level (for "dynamic" zooming I use right rudder pedal's "brake")
- radiator
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#31 soarfeat

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 15:15

On my third return unit, I eventually lost the proper function of the mode switch in addition to the R1 and R2 wheels as previously discussed. Again what is happening is the wires become worn, the individual fine aluminum braids inside the color rubber cover are wearing apart. My advice if you have had this returned and the new one has already developed the same problem is ( if it is under warranty ), (1) you can return for a full refund to Logitech because the problem was not fixed, (2) you can get a third replacement for free and when this one is received,before using throttle,open it up and insert a larger washer on the screw that is suppose to hold the wire between the two plastic post,you may also want to widen those plastic post a bit by delicately sanding ( maybe with a dremel tool if available ). Eliminate any binding there ! This should be ok then.
If it is out of warranty,Logitech will just send you a new unit at half the retail value (299.99). If this is not reasonable,only option is to repair yourself,it can be done, just be patient and take your time. good luck and I'm sorry you are having these problems as I did –rclark–
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#32 BuddyWoof

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Posted 14 April 2011 - 19:29

Thanks for all the details folks! Ill go for it!
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#33 BuddyWoof

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:46

I finally tried this since my warranty was up anyway. After opening it up, I didn't notice my wire was pinch. It seemed to move freely. So I just moved that wire a bit and my rotaries no longer spike! Awesome! Thanks for this OP.
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#34 HotTom

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:34

I made the repair described by OP about 6 months ago.
It worked fine for about a month, then the problem re-appeared.
So I gave up and simply stopped using R1, R2 rotaries on the throttle.

That's what I did.

A very easy workaround and I wasn't using those trim rotaries anywhere.

Just change them on the Controls page in the game. The rotaries on the joystick are very solid and very precise.
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#35 BuddyWoof

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 03:53

Sure that could be a workaround but I like to keep my left hand on the throttle while mixing and cooling/warming. The workaround by OP is so simple (took me 5 minutes) that it's not worth not doing imo. Just got done with a mission after fixing this……the rotaries are now rock solid. If it happens again in a month, I'll invest another 5 minutes I think.
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#36 HotTom

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:02

Well, Woof, maybe it will be helpful to someone else ;)
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#37 cjreyrey

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:15

Hello!I bought an extension cable for this, and is working fine.
I made in China and they made me produce 50, so I am selling most of them on ebay..
if interested, go and search on ebay for G940 throttle extension cable..

Cheers!
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#38 SeaW0lf

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 14:01

Cool. My cable is already broken – lost the wheel and face forward buttons, but I might need the extension to repair them.

Do you know if they would work for the pedals too? Or can I cannibalize it and use a single wire to extend / mend a broken one?
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#39 cjreyrey

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 21:04

Hello Seawolf!!
NO!
If the cable is already broken, this extension cable will be of NO USE!! As you will have to repair the original cable is better to extend it with the same repairing you must do instead of buying me this one..
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#40 SeaW0lf

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Posted 30 October 2014 - 23:08

But not all the wires seem to be broken. Even if I mend the broken ones, I might need the extension. I need to open it and check. But good to have the option. Thanks for making it available for the community.
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