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Question re the Video Trailer competition


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#1 Ighten

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 06:49

Could somone tell me precisely what constitutes Music in the Public Domain.. More precisely how does it apply with regard to classical music..

Most recordings I have are obviously new and does the conductor etc and recording therefore have protection?
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#2 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 07:50

http://www.royaltyfr...s-fair-use.html">http://www.royaltyfr...sic.com/public- … r-use.html

Ming
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#3 hq_Reflected

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 07:51

Do we get extra points for composing our own stuff? :)
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#4 Acasto

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 09:41

Could somone tell me precisely what constitutes Music in the Public Domain.. More precisely how does it apply with regard to classical music..

Most recordings I have are obviously new and does the conductor etc and recording therefore have protection?

the link has been removed by the author
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#5 Hellbender

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 21:11

A word of warning to those thinking of using classical music: classical music is not free of royalties!



This music still needs to be licensed from the performer.

There are royalty-free sources available online, but you will still need to pay a (usually small) fee in order to license the music for use in your project.



You will have a hard time finding truly free (classical) music that is also royalty-free and that can be used for a for-profit project.

Don't forget that we're essentially making an ad for a commercial product, no matter how personal this project might be.



Be very, very, very careful, or you can get both neoqb and yourself into big trouble.

Copyright laws are pretty insane.
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J5_Hellbender


#6 Hellbender

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 21:35

http://freemusicarchive.org/
;)

I'm sorry, but you can't use music under the creative commons license.

http://creativecommo...y-nc-sa/3.0/us/">http://creativecommo...y-nc-sa/3.0/us/

Noncommercial — You may not use this work for commercial purposes.

This is a video trailer for a commercial product. You're essentially a freelance advertiser.



Make a clear distinction between public domain music (music with a copyright date of 1922 or earlier, including the copyright of the performer), royalty-free music (music with a one-time purchase license, no more royalties to be paid once licensed) and creative commons (music released freely for noncommercial use).

Completely free music that is going to be featured in these trailers can be:

- the music neoqb provided
- the music you make yourself
- the music someone else makes for you and decides to license you free of charge for use in your video, or specifically releases in the public domain without the creative commons license (tell me if you find some)


Also, copyright is something that doesn't need to be specified. If you come across some music someone made on some or other forum on the internet and never published, it's still copyrighted. Intellectual property is always automatically copyrighted.

In this case, there's a good chance you can get away with it, but if the author ever finds out you used his music without permission and decides to press charges, you're in trouble and neoqb's in trouble.

Once again: be careful. Copyright laws are insane.
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J5_Hellbender


#7 WW1EAF_Ming

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:00

royalty-free music (music with a one-time purchase license, no more royalties to be paid once licensed)

Yes, and in the link above

royaltyfreemusic.com

Quite expensive actually but no hassles for neoqb, good general advice hellbender. It could all go very badly wrong :)

Douglas Adams copied, stole and offered as his own work a whole scene (alien invaders mistake scale of planet Earth, a dog eats them) for Hitchhikers and I've never forgiven him

Ming
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#8 Acasto

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:17

http://freemusicarchive.org/
;)

I'm sorry, but you can't use music under the creative commons license.

http://creativecommo...y-nc-sa/3.0/us/">http://creativecommo...y-nc-sa/3.0/us/

Noncommercial — You may not use this work for commercial purposes.

you're right, I'm wrong because in the past because this site only collects music without any copyright (including my old collaborations).

Nothing forbids contact the author telling him that will use her song …

But I think I will concentrate on composition and I will entrust to any source.

I have edited my post ;)
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#9 Ighten

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:53

Think I'll just stick to either Neoqbs supplied music or it will be me strumming a guitar and banging a tin can ;)
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#10 Jason_Williams

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:53

There are some songs in the public domain, at least in America such as our national anthem and I think Yankee Doodle Dandy and songs like that. I assume every country has similar situations.

I just wanted to make sure all possible avenues for music were available to the video maker, not just the bit of music we provided.

Please try to make sure whatever music you use, you have the lawful right to use or proper permission.

The music is but one part to the puzzle though. Editing, Action, Story-Telling, Narrative all play a role too.

Should be fun to see what is developed.

Jason
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#11 Jason_Williams

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 09:58

Think I'll just stick to either Neoqbs supplied music or it will be me strumming a guitar and banging a tin can ;)


You never know what we'll like. :D

Jason
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#12 hq_Reflected

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 10:08

There are some songs in the public domain, at least in America such as our national anthem and I think Yankee Doodle Dandy and songs like that. I assume every country has similar situations.

I just wanted to make sure all possible avenues for music were available to the video maker, not just the bit of music we provided.

Please try to make sure whatever music you use, you have the lawful right to use or proper permission.

The music is but one part to the puzzle though. Editing, Action, Story-Telling, Narrative all play a role too.

Should be fun to see what is developed.

Jason

Story telling? Isn't the point of a trailer to get as many people's attention as possible? To wake their interest towards RoF? Story telling is secondary IMO :roll:

Or do you want a cool video that has a story, and it will act as a trailer? Please specify this before I start working.
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#13 J2_squid

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 11:43

Story telling? Isn't the point of a trailer to get as many people's attention as possible? To wake their interest towards RoF? Story telling is secondary IMO

Or do you want a cool video that has a story, and it will act as a trailer? Please specify this before I start working.

I would hazard a guess, Ref that you are right its meant to be a trailer. But how you convey that message is up to you. Do you tell a story? Whats the narrative? It it just a showcase of graphics and gameplay?

I would say thats entirely up to you.
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#14 hq_Jorri

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 17:08

Thanks Bender; good to see that pointed out since it's true.

Also, Jason, if songs are in the public domain that doesn't mean their performances are free to be used for commercial puproses? If you want to add Yankee Doodle to your video you're still not allowed to use any old performance of it.
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#15 Hellbender

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 17:30

Also, Jason, if songs are in the public domain that doesn't mean their performances are free to be used for commercial puproses? If you want to add Yankee Doodle to your video you're still not allowed to use any old performance of it.

^^ This.


Story telling? Isn't the point of a trailer to get as many people's attention as possible? To wake their interest towards RoF? Story telling is secondary IMO :roll:

Or do you want a cool video that has a story, and it will act as a trailer? Please specify this before I start working.

I think you just answered your own question here.

May the best win!

;)
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J5_Hellbender


#16 hq_Jorri

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 17:44

And may many participate so we get a lot of great footage so the whole world will grow bored of seeing even more ROF videos :mrgreen:
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#17 hq_Overmax

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 14:03

Hm the contest is very attractiv with this prices. Wpuld it be possible to give us access to the rise of flight writing/logo, the neoqb logo and the music of the youtube plane presentations? (http://www.youtube.c...h?v=gbe_bt5R6EY">) It's a little bit more action then the offered music above.
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#18 Hellbender

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:39

Hm the contest is very attractiv with this prices. Wpuld it be possible to give us access to the rise of flight writing/logo, the neoqb logo and the music of the youtube plane presentations? (http://www.youtube.c...h?v=gbe_bt5R6EY">) It's a little bit more action then the offered music above.

All are already available in your Rise of Flight installation.

The music of the Youtube plane presentations is very likely not licensed for this purpose.
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J5_Hellbender


#19 Jason_Williams

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 13:02

There are some songs in the public domain, at least in America such as our national anthem and I think Yankee Doodle Dandy and songs like that. I assume every country has similar situations.

I just wanted to make sure all possible avenues for music were available to the video maker, not just the bit of music we provided.

Please try to make sure whatever music you use, you have the lawful right to use or proper permission.

The music is but one part to the puzzle though. Editing, Action, Story-Telling, Narrative all play a role too.

Should be fun to see what is developed.

Jason

Story telling? Isn't the point of a trailer to get as many people's attention as possible? To wake their interest towards RoF? Story telling is secondary IMO :roll:

Or do you want a cool video that has a story, and it will act as a trailer? Please specify this before I start working.

Sorry Reflected. I am not going to say what it exactly is we are looking for as we don't know nor have the time or resources to develop it at the moment. So we have created this contest since we know there are many creative members of the ROF community. We have given the participants a wide berth so they can be creative. And by story telling I meant that you are describing and promoting a product in some manner. How you create that narrative is up to you.

A far as music goes, do whatever research you need to make sure you don't have any usage rights issues. I cannot answer nor am I an expert in these matters. We just did not want to limit you to just our music andI tried to give you examples of what could be used.

Jason
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#20 Yell_Ray

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 09:15

Can I use music with this type of license?
http://creativecommo...nses/by-sa/3.0/">http://creativecommo...nses/by-sa/3.0/
There is no "non-commersial use" mark.
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#21 Jason_Williams

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 18:42

Can I use music with this type of license?
http://creativecommo...nses/by-sa/3.0/">http://creativecommo...nses/by-sa/3.0/
There is no "non-commersial use" mark.

That is not for me to answer. Ask the creative commons people.

Jason
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#22 hq_Jorri

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Posted 10 June 2010 - 18:47

Share Alike — If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same, similar or a compatible license.

With rights of the trailer you submit being reserved to neoqb, I'm afraid that is not the case.

Jason: you'll have to read into this eventually when being confronted with a video submission sporting music that has a certain license attached to it.
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#23 hq_Reflected

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 06:07

Jason, I have another question for you.
If I compose my own music for the video will neoqb have the copyrights for it or can I still use it elsewhere?
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#24 Hellbender

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 10:46

Jason, I have another question for you.
If I compose my own music for the video will neoqb have the copyrights for it or can I still use it elsewhere?

You are licensing your music to neoqb, not only for the trailer.

They can use your music for anything, forever, without asking your permission or paying you royalties.



However, it remains your intellectual property.

You can still do with it what you want.
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J5_Hellbender


#25 Jonathan

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 21:19

Hah! I bought a song from a website that was supposedly free domain, but it wasn't… I checked and hidden away someplace on the site, it said I had to pay for a sync licence. 1400 euros a year! And their music wasn't even that great… Bull(expletive)!

The kicker was that I had already spent a lot of time editing the trailer to that particular song. So I found another song that was public domain (made sure to research it first) and stayed up very late for a few nights re-editing the darn thing. I'm happy with it now though. I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's videos!

Copyright laws are tricky. One must be careful.

-Jonathan-
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#26 Nova...

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 21:35

I look forward to seeing all of the great videos!
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#27 hq_Reflected

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 06:02

I bet there will be a bucket load of excellent videos and NeoQB will have a hard time picking the best. It would be great to be in the top10, especially in the top3, but we'll see ;)

As for the music it was next to impossible to find anything, so I composed mine and I'm quite happy with how it turned out.

Anyway, I'm sure NeoQB will get what they want, this contest was a specacular idea.
Can't wait to see the top 10!
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#28 catchov

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 07:02

As for the music it was next to impossible to find anything, so I composed mine and I'm quite happy with how it turned out.

Splendid Reflected :) Look forward to hearing it. I wonder if others have done the same due to that crazy army of copyright opportunists. I mean this is the interweb isn't it :lol: Scared me off. The right music makes or breaks a video imo so it's the most important factor to me.

I must admit I'm getting rather excited :P There's a bunch of talented and knowledgeable people here so I'm expecting a frightfully good show :)
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#29 hq_Reflected

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 07:16

Don't expect anything big or serious, it's only a stupid piano line with a synth base & marching drum-ish bass toms.

That prize of 1000 dollars should be enough to persuade every video maker out there to compete. I hope Mysticpuma hasn't heard of it :P :lol:
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#30 catchov

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 07:21

Don't expect anything big or serious, it's only a stupid piano line with a synth base & marching drum-ish bass toms.

I don't care. As long as it sounds nothing like Kenny G I'll be happy :P
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#31 J2_squid

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:56

A site I used for Videos for work is this one. A basic licence is all you need. Costs around £25 per song.

http://www.mediamusicnow.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.mediamusicnow.co.uk
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#32 hq_Jorri

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 21:41

The right music makes or breaks a video imo so it's the most important factor to me.

I agree, which made this pretty impossible :(

Really looking forward to seeing the other entries!
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#33 catchov

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 01:04

The right music makes or breaks a video imo so it's the most important factor to me.

I agree, which made this pretty impossible :(

Precisely. No way I was gonna jump through hoops just to please the grubby copyright opportunists out there. Shame.

Utube has softened it's stance anyway. Now they'll plug an add in to vids when you breach copyright (which you just turn off). That works for me as I get the music I want and everybody's happy and I haven't paid a cent. Not that I ever would to those vultures … or perhaps vulchers ! Why I oughtta ….
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#34 J2_squid

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:24

It is tricky, but copyright is what it is unfortunately. I was going to buy a copyright free version of the music I used, but the quality just wasnt upto scratch.

No matter, Im looking forward to seeing what everyone else comes up with. Ill release mine just as a normal video once the results have been declared.
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#35 hq_Reflected

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 08:38

Well, you should look at the other side of the coin too. I, as a musician know very well how much it costs to be a musician.

My salary (above average around here): 720 USD/ month
(proper) instruments: 9,000 USD
Recording an LP: 2,500 USD
Music video: 2,000 USD - 10,000 USD
Not to mention renting the band practice place, fuel, and all that.

After all this everyone is outraged by the idea of paying for a song…I'd love to give them away for free, but money doesn't grow on trees :?
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#36 XTRMNTR2K

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 17:50

Well, you should look at the other side of the coin too. I, as a musician know very well how much it costs to be a musician.

My salary (above average around here): 720 USD/ month
(proper) instruments: 9,000 USD
Recording an LP: 2,500 USD
Music video: 2,000 USD - 10,000 USD
Not to mention renting the band practice place, fuel, and all that.

After all this everyone is outraged by the idea of paying for a song…I'd love to give them away for free, but money doesn't grow on trees :?

I can perfectly understand that. Recording music can easily cost you thousands of dollars.
Good music - much like good work in general - should be worth good money. The issue with this specific case - the trailer - is that while the license NEEDS to be for commercial uses, the creator of the trailer and thus the license's buyer wouldn't necessarily make money out of it (depending on the ranking in the contest). So at least in this case, buying a license wasn't really a possibility for me. Instead (after getting a tiny little glimpse of the trainwreck that is copyright law) I decided to stick with neoqb's official trailer music loop. To be honest, this made me hesitate for so long I only started work on the video (recording, editing, rendering) three days before the deadline. But in the end I am happy (and surprised) about how good it turned out to be. :D

So yeah, it's all very exciting until next Sunday, when we will hopefully know more about the results. I am sure there are some great videos among the entries :)
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#37 Stykkisholmur

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 02:06

Or you could always ask someone like I did. I have full rights to use, publish and profit off of his music. That's probably your best bet, considering I don't have the time, money or talent to produce grade-A music.
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